3rd suit forcing

[quiddity]

[hv=d=e&v=b&s=sqxxhqjdaktxxxcjt]133|100|Scoring: IMP

P 1♦ P 1♥

P 2♦ P 2♠

P ?

 

2♠ is artificial and game forcing. [/hv]

 

I'm never sure when it's right to bid NT without a real stopper in the unbid suit. Is there any good reason for bidding 2NT here?

[gnasher]

Aren't there two unbid suits?

 

Bidding notrumps seems wrong with stoppers of Qxx and J10. I'd bid 3♥: my hearts are pretty good given that I didn't raise on the previous round. If that's not allowed, I suppose 3♠ is right, showing where my "stopper" is.

[OleBerg]

I'd try 3♣. Keeps the bidding low, and rightsides 3NT. If it promises a club-stopper, it's obviously not an option.

[Cyberyeti]

I'd bid 3H, this sort of hand makes me happy I play the system I do where 2H is the ask and I have a choice of 2S or 2N (showing H) over this.

[ONEferBRID]

[hv=d=e&v=b&s=sqxxhqjdaktxxxcjt]133|100|Scoring: IMP

P 1♦ P 1♥

P 2♦ P 2♠

P ?

 

2♠ is artificial and game forcing. [/hv]

 

I'm never sure when it's right to bid NT without a real stopper in the unbid suit.  Is there any good reason for bidding 2NT here?

I think the "unbid suit" should be the "other Major" -- Spades in this case, since 2S! is forcing ( 'cheapest new suit forcing' ) and may be artificial .

 

Thus, by prior agreement, I would bid 2NT to show a stop ( or at least partial stop ) in the other Major ( Spades ).

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This is analogous to NMF after a 1NT rebid by opener where the "4th , or unbid", suit is ALWAYS the other Major .

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And if you had stop(s) in the other minor ( Clubs here ) , but no stop(s) in spades, you could agree that 3C would show that ( and not guarantee 4 cards ).

This is better ( IMO) than having to bid 3S to show Sp-stop(s) w/o Club-stop(s).

So a rebid of 3S would definitely show 4 cards.

[junyi_zhu]

[hv=d=e&v=b&s=sqxxhqjdaktxxxcjt]133|100|Scoring: IMP

P 1♦ P 1♥

P 2♦ P 2♠

P ?

 

2♠ is artificial and game forcing. [/hv]

 

I'm never sure when it's right to bid NT without a real stopper in the unbid suit. Is there any good reason for bidding 2NT here?

looks like a 3S bid, you may really belong to 4S when partner holds

AKJx ATxx xx xxx

[wank]

bit early to support hearts imo. i'll bid 3c. if p bids 3d, i've got an easy3h bid. if he bids 3h, i can raise to game

[gnasher]

I'd try 3♣.

bit early to support hearts imo.  i'll bid 3c. if p bids 3d, i've got an easy3h bid.  if he bids 3h, i can raise to game

I'm puzzled by these posts. Partner hasn't shown anything in spades, has he?

[Free]

3♠, it can't be a 4 card suit, so it basically shows my hand I guess: no 7 card ♦, something in ♠ and no 3 card ♥ support.

[gwnn]

I'm puzzled by gnasher's puzzlement. The most natural way of playing 2S and 3C is that they imply some length or stopper in that suit and is looking for something, either he has 5 hearts or he needs a stopper in the fourth suit.

[Free]

I'm puzzled by gnasher's puzzlement. The most natural way of playing 2S and 3C is that they imply some length or stopper in that suit and is looking for something, either he has 5 hearts or he needs a stopper in the fourth suit.

The most natural way is irrelevant, it was clearly stated 2♠ is artificial and GF...

[quiddity]

Sorry, the description of the methods was inadequate. 2♠ is artificial in the sense that it can be used as a convenient way to force to game (for example, with a raise of partner's minor), but opener tends to bid as though it shows spades. 2NT by opener shows a stopper in the unbid suit, 3♠ would tend to show 4-card spade support.

 

On this hand I thought maybe it would be best to bid 2NT without a real stopper to show the balanced distribution and soft honors, but partner raised with Qx in clubs and it was not a success. I guess I'm just supposed to bid 3♦.

[andy_h]

Agree with gnasher, 3H. I would never treat JT as a stopper at this high bidding level.

[InTime]

Sorry, the description of the methods was inadequate.  2♠ is artificial in the sense that it can be used as a convenient way to force to game (for example, with a raise of partner's minor), but opener tends to bid as though it shows spades.  2NT by opener shows a stopper in the unbid suit, 3♠ would tend to show 4-card spade support. 

 

On this hand I thought maybe it would be best to bid 2NT without a real stopper to show the balanced distribution and soft honors, but partner raised with Qx in clubs and it was not a success.  I guess I'm just supposed to bid 3♦.

I think you should have a rule with partner: 3rd suit says and 4th suit asks.

In this context, partner's 2♠ show some ♠values (can be a 4-card suit) and is a NT prompt or showing a 5-card ♥ suit with some ♠ values for NT. Reversing by partner here is also a type of GF and we can bid slowly. No need to rush things here.

I would bid 3♣ here (asking) although I know partner has not any ♣ values, but we are in a GF auction and we can proceed slowly. If partner then bids 3♦, I would then bid 3♠. Of course if partner bids 3♥ after your 3♣, you have a clear 4♥ bid.

If you select to bid 3♠ (showing no ♣ values and partner convert to 4♦, I will convert to 4♥. Partner can then still correct or pass.

Also note that if you would have bid 3♠ over partner's 2♠, it cannot be a 4-card suit because you would have rebid 1♠ after 1♥. However, I would not have bid 3♠ after 2♠ simply because it will take up too much room for now.

Regards

[ONEferBRID]

Sorry, the description of the methods was inadequate.  2♠ is artificial in the sense that it can be used as a convenient way to force to game (for example, with a raise of partner's minor), but opener tends to bid as though it shows spades.  2NT by opener shows a stopper in the unbid suit, 3♠ would tend to show 4-card spade support. 

 

On this hand I thought maybe it would be best to bid 2NT without a real stopper to show the balanced distribution and soft honors, but partner raised with Qx in clubs and it was not a success.  I guess I'm just supposed to bid 3♦.

If you use 2NT to show stop(s) in Sp ( not Cl ) , then there is room for partner to bid 3C ( 4th suit ) to "ask" if you also had a stopper there. Not really having one, you still have low-level room to bid 3D.... or 3H showing 2 cards.

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Retaining "more bidding room" is the advantage of showing stop(s) in the other-Major ( just as in NMF over Opener's 1NT rebid ) rather than in the other-minor .   And when you think about it, whether it is NMF or cheapest-new-suit-forcing over a minor rebid, there are actually TWO UNBID "real" suits. The "books" say for NMF that 2NT shows stop(s) in the unbid, or 4th, suit -- well, the "unbid" suit is ALWAYS the other Major in NMF and that was the intent of the convention --to show stop(s) in the other-Major; and it is still unclear at that point if the partnership has stop(s) in the other minor .