Acol combination of NT and 4 / 5 cd majors

[hotShot]

I have played 4cM "up the line" successfully with both strong and weak NT for years.

 

The reason we switched to 5cM/strong NT was that opener could not make a valid decision to compete in contested auctions like:

1♥ - 1♠/2m - 2♥ - pass/2♠/3m

?

Since partner could have gone for a 4-3 fit, you don't know if your fit is 7/8 or (if opener happens to have 5cards) 8/9 cards.

[NickRW]

...Fred argues that weak notrump systems are more difficult in contested auctions than are strong strong notrump systems and that he wouldn't recommend weak notrump to anyone who isn't prepared to put a lot of work into system discussions...

One minor point - I suspect Fred's advice is entirely sound for those used to 5cM and strong NT - but it works the other way too - you can't simply swap from 4cM and weak NT to the other extreme without a lot of examination of the implications in all sorts of both contested and uncontested sequences.

 

I think you probably can swap from 4cM with weak NT to 5cM with weak NT relatively easily - indeed it (along with just 5c♠/weak) is a common variant found in Britain - it seems to me that it is swapping the NT range that has the biggest implications.

 

Though I'd recommend against it personally, I think the 5cM strong NT crowd would find it easier to go to 4cM with strong than than they would to take on the KS system with its 5cM/weak option - dunno - I'm not from the rest of the world - just my hunch.

 

Having said what we all have (generally that none of us likes 4cM and strong) it has been played successfully at the highest levels and in recent times too.

 

Nick

[NickRW]

I have played 4cM "up the line" successfully with both strong and weak NT for years.

 

The reason we switched to 5cM/strong NT was that opener could not make a valid decision to compete in contested auctions like:

1♥ - 1♠/2m - 2♥ - pass/2♠/3m

?

Since partner could have gone for a 4-3 fit, you don't know if your fit is 7/8 or (if opener happens to have 5cards) 8/9 cards.

Yeah - while I personally think that this argument is overweighted by some - never the less it is the killer argument for many.

 

Nick

[hrothgar]

I have played 4cM "up the line" successfully with both strong and weak NT for years.

 

The reason we switched to 5cM/strong NT was that opener could not make a valid decision to compete in contested auctions like:

1♥ - 1♠/2m - 2♥ - pass/2♠/3m

?

Since partner could have gone for a 4-3 fit, you don't know if your fit is 7/8 or (if opener happens to have 5cards)  8/9 cards.

Yeah - while I personally think that this argument is overweighted by some - never the less it is the killer argument for many.

 

Nick

When I play 4 card majors, we always raise with 3 card support

 

Yes, we play a lot of Moysians at the two level, but it seems to work out quite well.

[gwnn]

Frances said that 4cM is best with strong NT and weak NT is best with 5cM, I seem to recall (I don't know whether her statement was stronger, i.e. whether she included the inverses: strong NT is best with 4cM and 5cM is best with weak NT). Also Fred said that it is a very bad idea to open 1M on a 4 card suit and strong NT values.

 

Why is that, I can't tell you exactly. But I think these were their opinions.

[hotShot]

I have played 4cM "up the line" successfully with both strong and weak NT for years.

 

The reason we switched to 5cM/strong NT was that opener could not make a valid decision to compete in contested auctions like:

1♥ - 1♠/2m - 2♥ - pass/2♠/3m

?

Since partner could have gone for a 4-3 fit, you don't know if your fit is 7/8 or (if opener happens to have 5cards)  8/9 cards.

Yeah - while I personally think that this argument is overweighted by some - never the less it is the killer argument for many.

 

Nick

Well for us the real killer argument was, that our 4cM/strong NT system was incredibly simple. There are several solution for the problem, but all lead to more complexity.

To our surprise we found that switching from 4cM/strong NT to 5cM/strong NT had very little side effects within our simple system.

[EricK]

I think the key auction is 1x 2y 2NT.

 

Traditionally, playing 4cd major and strong NT, 2NT in the above auction was non-forcing. That put responder in a difficult position if he had a balanced 11 points - the partnership might have 25 points, or might have only 23 points.

 

The only real way around that is to play 2/1 as GF. Playing 5 card majors with a strong NT, you have the alternative option of rebidding the major on a balanced 5332 hand.

 

So if you don't want to play 2/1 as GF, 4cd majors and strong NT doesn't really work well. But if you are happy to play 2/1 as GF then it certainly does work.

[helene_t]

Yeah, if you play 4-card majors and strong notrump you may want to keep the range of the balanced hands below the opening range narrower, 12-13 or 13-14. Alternatively you can respond 2NT with the balanced 11-counts (not very attractive) or fake a reverse with the balanced 14-counts. Or play the 3NT rebid as 14 points and then fake a reverse with the 18-19 hands. The latter may be more attractive if you open 4-card majors only with the balanced 12-14 and not with the 18-19 points, which makes a lot of sense.

[wank]

we play 2/1 as gf opposite a nt rebid, but that opener can give NF preference to opener's major - this means on misfits you can bail at the 2 level.