Simple Bidding Question

[olegeorge]

NV vs. V - Matchpoints - Both partnerships playing Basic 2/1

 

P - 1♥ - P - 1N -

P - 2♦ - P -2♥ -

P - P - D - P

?

 

1. What approximate distribution(s) should - bidder believe partner (doubler) is likely to have?

 

2. What does a 2NT bid mean?

 

3. Assume that you have: 4-3-3-3 distribution with 4 diamonds - what should you bid ?

 

4. Assume that a 2NT bid was made and then - double? - what should you (partner of original doubler) bid? :

a. Pass?

b. Bid 3♣?

c. Bid 3♠?

 

5. Anything else?

[jillybean]

It appears as if the 2♥ bidder has doubled 2♥?

[aguahombre]

It appears as if the 2♥ bidder has doubled 2♥?

careful, jilly. It will change on you :lol: So I will confirm your post before that happens.

[jillybean]

It appears as if the 2♥ bidder has doubled 2♥?

careful, jilly. It will change on you :lol: So I will confirm your post before that happens.

I'm just happy I'm not the only one making a mess of these :)

[ggwhiz]

I once ran a school tournament for 10 year olds on the day after halloween and a little guy ran up to me, "Mr.G, what's the score for 4♥ redoubled?"

 

Being 1/2 way through the tourney, I clued in and asked who doubled.

 

"I did, my partner redoubled and then I MADE IT."

 

420 (sigh) "yipee!!!"

 

I can think of at least 5 times that my pard has doubled ME over the years. They were right too, I went down every time.

[olegeorge]

Sorry - I messed up the original posting. Obviously - after 3 passes the auction would have been passed out - before the final bidder doubled him/herself.

 

Please- re-read it and respond - if you are willing/wanting to. Thanks!

[ggwhiz]

1. 4-4 in the blacks is all that is promised but I sure hope it's 4-5 but we overcall 1♠ pretty aggressively on these hands/colours. Can't push anybody around with clubs.

 

2. no 4-card black suit but gotta be red suit values.

 

3. 2♠ given our overcalling style, and try to sound tough.

 

4. and 5. Made your bed, lie down and go to sleep. Pard will appreciate not having to play this one.

[aguahombre]

1. 4 -3-2-4 and his marbles are loose to reopen a misfit auction. Spades will break 4-2 or clubs will break 5-1 or both. Partner lucked out by not doubling after 2D, but then lost his mind. This is based in part on your 3 3 4 3 distribution as stated in #3.

 

2. desire to go down in 2NT instead of a black suit.

 

3. 2NT (see above)

 

4. Even more hopeless, since now the opps not only have no fit, but have near game in HCP, so partner is suicidal.

 

5. Explain to partner about staying out of dead misfit auctions, and to either get in early or stay out completely.

[mich-b]

1.  4 -3-2-4 and his marbles are loose to reopen a misfit auction.  Spades will break 4-2 or clubs will break 5-1 or both.  Partner lucked out by not doubling after 2D, but then lost his mind. This is based in part on your 3 3 4 3 distribution as stated in #3.

 

2. desire to go down in 2NT instead of a black suit.

 

3. 2NT (see above)

 

4. Even more hopeless, since now the opps not only have no fit, but have near game in HCP, so partner is suicidal.

 

5. Explain to partner about staying out of dead misfit auctions, and to either get in early or stay out completely.

Maybe , if you (very sensibly imho) think that a reopening double doesnt make sense here , this double should be played as pure penalty?

Just a reasonable hand with 5 good ♥s? (And it makes even more sense in MP).

 

Or, perhaps even better , a "either-or" double, showing some values with 1 (or less) ♥s, or 5 (or more) ♥s?

[aguahombre]

Anything more than 3 hearts in partner's hand makes a fouled board. you are 3 3 4 3. Opener probably has 5 hearts and his partner has two. Basic 2/1 was given, and even though 1NT was not announced, we can assume it was forcing. Opener could be 4 5 3 1, 3 5 4 1, or 3 5 3 2. Responder does not have 4 spades, and is 3 2 3 5. 2 2 4 5, or 3 2 4 4.

[mich-b]

Anything more than 3 hearts in partner's hand makes a fouled board.  you are 3 3 4 3.  Opener probably has 5 hearts and his partner has two.  Basic 2/1 was given, and even though 1NT was not announced, we can assume it was forcing.  Opener could be 4 5 3 1, 3 5 4 1, or 3 5 3 2.  Responder does not have 4 spades, and is 3 2 3 5. 2 2 4 5, or 3 2 4 4.

I was not discussing the meaning of partner's double in the context of the hand I am holding. OP did mention the distribution only as question #3 , so i thought he wanted a general answer for items #1 and #2 , without peeking ahead..

I meant to discuss the possible meaning of this double in abstract - and what I suggest the OP should agree with his partner after this hand is over.

[655321]

Anything more than 3 hearts in partner's hand makes a fouled board.  you are 3 3 4 3.  Opener probably has 5 hearts and his partner has two.  Basic 2/1 was given, and even though 1NT was not announced, we can assume it was forcing.  Opener could be 4 5 3 1, 3 5 4 1, or 3 5 3 2.  Responder does not have 4 spades, and is 3 2 3 5. 2 2 4 5, or 3 2 4 4.

I don't know what is going on, but obviously partner does not have 3 hearts or she would not have doubled, so listing all these 5-2 heart fits by the opponents is not relevant.

 

OP did not give us the whole deal, perhaps partner is 4135 with 8-9 HCP so wasn't strong enough to double on the first round, but has decided to make a takeout double now to force them up a level.

 

What would Aquawoman say to you if you gave her the lecture about staying out of dead misfit auctions, and you then found out that RHO was messing around with 4 (or 5!) card heart support and the balance was necessary?

[peachy]

This is a very risky Dbl in the given auction because there is no guarantee that the opponents have a fit. Let us just hope for the doubler's sake that opener's partner is not *me* with a 10-count and doubleton heart - the balancer will get a zero when I double to show a maximum NT.

 

The only reason for the reopening instead of direct action is that this is matchpoints and "never let the auction die at 2H". But!!! They don't have a fit!

 

The advancer is in a pickle if he does not have four cards in either black suit. Just do something or even leave the Dbl in. At least there is a slight chance 2H goes down while there is near zero chance that we can make anything on the 3-level or even 2S without a fit.

[gszeszycki]

1.

my advice is to have at least 55 in the side suits to make this type of reopening x--the opps *might* be in a misfit and for the reopening x to work

you normally need to make whatever contract your side ends up in. There is also the risk balancing might allow the opps to find a fit they missed*

 

* in the given auction it is not impossible for the opps to be missing a 53 dia fit in order to play in 52 heart fit when opener has 55 reds---not to mention

responder playing around with almost 0 points and 4-5 hearts:)

 

It is MP however and odds favor not letting them play a meagre 2h when you have decent distribution since the bidding seems to indicate roughly balanced power. A hand similar to QJTxx xx x JT9xx (or better consistent with the bidding) is probably fine since p rates to be mostly balanced and rates to have a decent amount of power due to the bidding.

 

2.

P had two previous opportunities to bid and failed to do so. It is very reasonable to assume they are weak and distributional probably with 7 hcp

or less (playing you for a decent hand since opps let bidding die). I would avoid

considering a 2n or 3n rebid (unless you play it as an artificial spade raise with 3 card support) here since the odds of 3n being right are slim at best.

 

3.

too diffficult to answer w/o seeing cards. What kind and where the points are located should determine your next bid. for ex with

 

xxx KQx KJxx AKx I would probably bid 3c since responder is far more likely to have longer clubs than spades (when they are not of equal length) since they did not choose a simple 2s balance. The excellent clubs make it tougher for opps to X.

AKx xxx xxxx AKQ i would bid 4s*A (Note that there is no need to x with

Axx Axx Axxx Axx i would try 3s*B these hands over 2h if P will balance

--------------------------------------with weak distributional hands)

 

*A. This might be a superb hand for a 3n (artificial) rebid showing the miracle concentration of values and a desire for game but with only 3 spades you might even find 5c is makeable

 

*B. This might be a superb hand for a 2n (artificial) rebid showing an invitational

raise but with only 3 spades. Be prepared to pass 3c if responder bids it.

 

4.

best bet is to bid 3c since partner might shade length in spades vs clubs for reopening x since clubs needed to play 3 level vs 2 level for spades.

[robertb]

1) If I were looking at a 3343 hand, I'd reason that partner is very unlikely to have 5 spades and bid this way; surely I'm practically guaranteed to have at least 2 spades on the opponent's auction, and my partner can save me a painful decision when he has a spade suit. It seems likely from the auction that partner has 3 hearts; double is kind of crazy if he has club shortage; and so he should be short in diamonds. For his bid to be a good one, he should probably be void in diamonds. Is that possible? Sure; opener can have something like a weak 3550, right, while responder is taking the matchpoint preference with a 3244 hand. So I think partner should have something like KJxx xxx - KQxxxx.

 

2) I think a 2NT bid says that I have the red suits stopped, poor spades, and a reason to hope the clubs are running.

 

3) With a 4333 hand, I would bid 2 spades. Lower level, higher trick score, and trumps rate to split.

 

4) Reasoning that I probably bid 2NT to make it, I would pass the double of 2NT.

 

5) If I were short in hearts, I would think that this double was penalty, and that partner had a huge heart stack. But with three hearts, well, partner really must want me to take this out.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

1) T/O, short hearts

2) scrambling, asking p to pick a minor, diamond is an option

3) 2NT or 2S, depends a little on vulnerability and on the quality

of my spades

4) Pass denies any preferenrence

3C showes club preference

3S does not exist