Hearts vs NT

[Gerben42]

Pass Pass 1NT(14-16) ?

 

[hv=d=w&v=b&s=sj2hkqt8763da6caq]133|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

2♦ would show ♥ or ♠, Dbl would not be penalty

[jdonn]

First option in the poll looks perfect to me.

[rbforster]

No choice for pass and lead a high heart?

[rogerclee]

No choice for pass and lead a high heart?

No, it is just ridiculously unlikely that both 1N and 2H are down, among the usual reasons to bid. Anyway agree with jdonn, though we could have slightly less.

[OleBerg]

No choice for pass and lead a high heart?

No, it is just ridiculously unlikely that both 1N and 2H are down, among the usual reasons to bid. Anyway agree with jdonn, though we could have slightly less.

I find pass to be obvious alternative.

 

The only reason I don't choose it, is because it leaves me in no-mans-land if responder acts. Like transfering to spades.

[whereagles]

4♥. 1 card with pard can be enough to make this and there's a good chance he has that.

[Jlall]

If I had the heart jack passing might be reasonable.

[gnasher]

I find pass to be obvious alternative.

 

The only reason I don't choose it, is because it leaves me in no-mans-land if responder acts. Like transfering to spades.

Isn't that why it's obviously not an alternative?

[OleBerg]

I find pass to be obvious alternative.

 

The only reason I don't choose it, is because it leaves me in no-mans-land if responder acts. Like transfering to spades.

Isn't that why it's obviously not an alternative?

Potaeto, potato.

 

Edit: And pass is higher on my list than 3♥.

 

Edit2: And I agree with Jlall about having the ♥J. Then it is still agamble, but ar least we are assured, that if it works, the patient will live.

[MFA]

D for penalty.

Since partner for some reason has insisted not to play this, I'll try option 1 and prepare myself for minus 100.

[the hog]

Option 1. Option 2 4H. Pass and penalty x don't rate.

[pooltuna]

Pass Pass 1NT(14-16) ?

 

Dealer: West Vul: Both Scoring: IMP

♠ J2 ♥ KQT8763 ♦ A6 ♣ AQ

 

2♦ would show ♥ or ♠, Dbl would not be penalty

This is unclear! "Or" is not the same as "Either...Or...". Does 2♦ mean partner is to select a major or does it mean he is forced to bid 2♥ and you will either pass, raise, or correct. BTW I assume the former and call 2♥

[Jlall]

D for penalty.

Since partner for some reason has insisted not to play this, I'll try option 1 and prepare myself for minus 100.

Haha these were my thoughts exactly fwiw. One of the benefits of penalty Xs is not to "get them" it's that you can X and then bid 2M to show a strong hand so you can find some games while still stopping in 2 if partner is very weak.

[OleBerg]

D for penalty.

Since partner for some reason has insisted not to play this, I'll try option 1 and prepare myself for minus 100.

Haha these were my thoughts exactly fwiw. One of the benefits of penalty Xs is not to "get them" it's that you can X and then bid 2M to show a strong hand so you can find some games while still stopping in 2 if partner is very weak.

It is also to ebable the partnership to compete better for partials, especially if you have one (or maybe even more?) take-out doubles available.

[jdonn]

Everyone plays penalty doubles now? :blink:

[aguahombre]

When they let us play CRASH on GCC, instead of CHASM, we can go back to Double for big trick-taker vs strong NT.

[gszeszycki]

your 15 and opps 15 leave around 10 hcp ---thats a LOT ---and a lot can happen if you dont take space away. I suggest you bid 4h under the theory that if P can take a trick the club finesse is a HUGE favorite to succeed. 4h might or might not make but it will rarely be doubled and the jump might prevent opps from finding game on their own.

[CSGibson]

your 15 and opps 15 leave around 10 hcp ---thats a LOT ---and a lot can happen if you dont take space away. I suggest you bid 4h under the theory that if P can take a trick the club finesse is a HUGE favorite to succeed. 4h might or might not make but it will rarely be doubled and the jump might prevent opps from finding game on their own.

no offense, but after a 2♥-3♥ sequence, partner should raise with a sure trick anyway. That means that you are probably going for a number when partner can't raise, likely vs their non-making game or making partscore. Meanwhile, on the sequences where game is likely to make, I'm in game because partner raised, and in the sequences where game is unlikely, I'm in 3♥, most likely undoubled.

[Phil]

2♦ then 2♥ to 3♥.

 

Are we also boosting 2♠ to 4♥? What is 2♦...2♠...3m?

[gwnn]

Are we also boosting 2♠ to 4♥? What is 2♦...2♠...3m?

Sure we are, partner should have 3+ hearts and some shape, we're favourites to make 4♥ are we not?

 

3m should be I guess hearts+values in this minor. We have values in both minors so we bid 4♥ :blink:

[dburn]

Not enough information. If double "would not be penalty", what would it be?

[Gerben42]

  Not enough information. If double "would not be penalty", what would it be?

 

A 2-suiter with 4M + 5+m (Woolsey).

[Gerben42]

[hv=d=e&v=b&n=sj2hkqt8763da6caq&w=saq853hajdq52cj95&e=s107hdjt74ck876432&s=sk964h9542dk983ct]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

This was the full hand. The two actions that were considered are bidding 4♥ directly and bidding Multi planning to make another move. I tried the first at the table and it went

 

Pass Pass 1NT 4♥

5♣ 5♥ X Pass

Pass Pass

 

I had some hopes that opener had 3253 but unfortunately he didn't, so down 1. I guess if you bid like this you need to play Pass-Double-Inversion so partner doubles to show a 5♥ bid and with your defense you then convert to penalty.

 

The real question is then, how does partner know that PDI applies here?

[MFA]

I had some hopes that opener had 3253 but unfortunately he didn't, so down 1. I guess if you bid like this you need to play Pass-Double-Inversion so partner doubles to show a 5♥ bid and with your defense you then convert to penalty.

 

The real question is then, how does partner know that PDI applies here?

I don't see why pass-double inversion has anything to do with this situation.

 

Pass-double inversion is a convention that applies in forcing pass situations. This is not a forcing pass situation.

 

Even if had agreed to play forcing pass in this situation, pass-double inversion would not help. Pass-double inversion simply inverts the basic meaning of a pass and that of a double. If we have a hand that would normally make a warning double (still given it is a forcing pass situation), we would pass instead with the same meaning. And if we have a forcing pass hand (in doubt of bidding 5 or defending) we would double to show that.

 

The gain of pass-double inversion comes solely in pass-and-pull sequences. Pass and pull sequences has a weakness with standard methods if partner pulls a forcing pass himself. That is what pass-double inversion can do better, and only that.

[cherdanno]

So playing PDI here double would mean "Please bid 5♥ if you had a 4♥ bid, but please pass in case you had both too much defense and too little offense (such as a defensive 7222)!"?

I already have a bid for that - 5♥.