kfay Posted June 4, 2010 Report Share Posted June 4, 2010 We had this auction tonight: 1♥-(P)-2♦-(4♣) We were unfavorable, if that matters... What would you bid with: AQxx K1097x Qx Q10 Are doubles still pen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jlall Posted June 4, 2010 Report Share Posted June 4, 2010 I would pass! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bbradley62 Posted June 4, 2010 Report Share Posted June 4, 2010 Pass. Partner knows you opened first seat r/w then couldn't penalty double, rebid H or raise D, so he's got a pretty good idea of what you have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjbrr Posted June 4, 2010 Report Share Posted June 4, 2010 no bid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_Marlowe Posted June 4, 2010 Report Share Posted June 4, 2010 X. And unless you agreed different, X is still penalty, we arein a Forcing Pass situation. With kind regardsMarlowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted June 4, 2010 Report Share Posted June 4, 2010 We are in a forcing pass situation. I don't have a penalty Dbl, I don't have anything else to say, so I'll pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted June 4, 2010 Report Share Posted June 4, 2010 Pass, unless I know RHO is a lunatic, in which case I'd double due to club wastage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcphee Posted June 4, 2010 Report Share Posted June 4, 2010 Pass here is one of the easy bids, it is F as partner made a 2/1 GF. and we have no bid that is adequate other than that pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kfay Posted June 4, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2010 Yeah this is basically what I already knew. On this hand Partner is 4351, bids 4♥ and you are in the wrong game. Happens, I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted June 4, 2010 Report Share Posted June 4, 2010 Now that we know that, someone will explain how they use super snapdragon double of 4C by opener in this very situation. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeh Posted June 4, 2010 Report Share Posted June 4, 2010 Yeah this is basically what I already knew. On this hand Partner is 4351, bids 4♥ and you are in the wrong game. Happens, I suppose.I knew that if I read BBF long enough, I'd see a hand on which F******y was the perfect solution! I'm going to put it back on my card right now!.......or not :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kfay Posted June 4, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2010 Yeah this is basically what I already knew. On this hand Partner is 4351, bids 4♥ and you are in the wrong game. Happens, I suppose.I knew that if I read BBF long enough, I'd see a hand on which F******y was the perfect solution! I'm going to put it back on my card right now!.......or not :) lol yeah that's what I said afterward Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel_k Posted June 4, 2010 Report Share Posted June 4, 2010 Why play penalty doubles just because the auction is forcing? Don't the normal principles apply - i.e. a double which usually doesn't end the auction makes better use of available bidding space than a double that does end the auction? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluecalm Posted June 8, 2010 Report Share Posted June 8, 2010 Why play penalty doubles just because the auction is forcing? Don't the normal principles apply - i.e. a double which usually doesn't end the auction makes better use of available bidding space than a double that does end the auction? Yeah I am not happy with penalty double here at all.I don't know what it should show though. Few possibilities: a)just extrasB)4 spadesc)shortness in their suit I am happy with c) but I play limited openings. No idea if that fits if opener is still in 11-22 range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gszeszycki Posted June 9, 2010 Report Share Posted June 9, 2010 1♥-(P)-2♦-(4♣) AQxx KT97x Qx QT X sigh that was the easy part now the long winded reasoning lets take the following auction in to consideration r/w1h p 2n (jacoby 2n) 5c this situation is very similar to the above except for the fact that we already have an established trump fit an immediate x by opener serves as a warning to p that we have 2 or 3 quick losers in the opponents suit and are minimum for previous bidding (seriously, when is the last time you had KQx AJx AK in the opps suit they bid to the 5 level). The x serves as a warning to partner that bidding on might be dangerous. Partner is then forced to pass for penalty (when it is dangerous to continue because they also have 2/3 quick losers in opps suit) or make some other bid. An immediate pass by opener shows a willingness to continue bidding (ie due to shortness in opps suit and a minimum OR because they have a holding similar to Ax/Kx in opp suit OR because they are much stronger than minimum and intend to pull any X made by p (concept of pass and pull). The given auction is the same w/o the safety net of an established trump fit but theprinciples would appear to be the same (I can understand why many would feel thesituations are too dissimilar due to lack of fit alone).. If we agree the situations aresimilar then it would appear that the correct bid after the 4c bid is X because opener is minimum has 2 quick losers and nothing else special going on. As an aside if your P had bid 1s (with their 4351) then bid 4h later it would have been easy to convert to 4s (sometimes 2/1 bidders forget the importance of 44 fits or ignore showing 4 spades because finding a fit 4-4 is against the odds). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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