How would you bid these cards

[Apollo81]

None vul, matchpoints. North deals.

 

♠KJx

♥xxxx

♦AQ9xx

♣A

 

♠Q98x

♥Kx

♦x

♣KQTxxx

[bluecalm]

Playing precision:

 

1♦ - 1♠

2♠ - pass

 

eactly 3-4-5-1 is the only shape I raise with 3 card support. I strongly believe in bidding 2♣ with 4+-4+ (or even 3-5) minors (especially if playing reverse flannery) and I strongly believe in 1NT response promising 2+cards.

 

Playing something else I would probably stop in 3♠ as S hand may be worth a game try opposite 12-14 and real diamonds.

[kenrexford]

Playing precision:

 

1♦ - 1♠

2♠ - pass

 

eactly 3-4-5-1 is the only shape I raise with 3 card support. I strongly believe in bidding 2♣ with 4+-4+ (or even 3-5) minors (especially if playing reverse flannery) and I strongly believe in 1NT response promising 2+cards.

 

Playing something else I would probably stop in 3♠ as S hand may be worth a game try opposite 12-14 and real diamonds.

I'd probably bid one more round:

 

1♦-1♠

2♠-2NT(Random GT)

3♦(3451)-3♠

P

 

Hopefully both of us don't overbid!

[kenrexford]

Weird

[minimonkey]

1D-1S

2S-2NT

3NT

 

I know it is not good but my partner and I play 2NT as an invite with only 4 Spades.

[Jlall]

None vul, matchpoints. North deals.

 

♠KJx

♥xxxx

♦AQ9xx

♣A

 

♠Q98x

♥Kx

♦x

♣KQTxxx

Playing completely standard methods:

 

1D 1S

2S 3C

3D 3S

P

 

Playing some kind of asking bid over 2S:

 

1D 1S

2S 2N

3D 3S

p

 

3D= 3 and a max.

 

Playing my preferred answers to the asking bid:

 

1D 1S

2S 2N

3H 3S

p

 

3H=3 max unbalanced

[Jlall]

Playing precision:

 

1♦ - 1♠

2♠ - pass

I really don't buy this auction, the south hand is massive if partner has 4 spades, and your style of raising makes that very likely. Precision also makes it less likely that partner has bad diamond wastage.

[kfay]

None vul, matchpoints.  North deals.

 

♠KJx

♥xxxx

♦AQ9xx

♣A

 

♠Q98x

♥Kx

♦x

♣KQTxxx

I'd probably bid one more round:

 

1♦-1♠

2♠-2NT(Random GT)

3♦(3451)-3♠

P

 

Hopefully both of us don't overbid!

 

P.S.... how the heck did I show 3451?

[Jlall]

Kfay, if you only raise with 4 except with 3451 (meckwell style) then it's easy to show 3451 over the ask

[kfay]

Kfay, if you only raise with 4 except with 3451 (meckwell style) then it's easy to show 3451 over the ask

Kinda a good policy/nice method.

 

Of course playing with the ch00-monster I have no need of such things since he ALWAYS raises on 3, basically.

 

:P

 

It's both very stressful and, yet, at the same time, somewhat comforting to know that when my partner raises me here... he's almost a lock to have 3 cards. lol. At least he doesn't doubt my declarer play--yet...

[Cyberyeti]

This is very borderline 1S/2C response for us, the auction will either go 1D-1S-2S or 1D-2C-2D-2S (very minimum 2/1, a better hand would bid an artificial 2H)-2N

[whereagles]

honestly:

 

1♦ 1♠

2♠ 2NT

3♥ 3NT

 

2♠ = systemic with unbalanced hand, 11-14

2NT = inv+, asks

3♥ = nat, max & 3 spades only

 

I didn't even see whether this is the right contract lol.

[bluecalm]

I really don't buy this auction, the south hand is massive if partner has 4 spades, and your style of raising makes that very likely. Precision also makes it less likely that partner has bad diamond wastage.

 

My favorite toy tells me the game makes in 53% of cases opposite 12-13 balanced with 4♠ so it looks like you are right. It was bad evaluation from me.

[Jlall]

I really don't buy this auction, the south hand is massive if partner has 4 spades, and your style of raising makes that very likely. Precision also makes it less likely that partner has bad diamond wastage.

 

My favorite toy tells me the game makes in 53% of cases opposite 12-13 balanced with 4♠ so it looks like you are right. It was bad evaluation from me.

Well I don't really know how to quantify this, but I think that this is a hand that will be very easy to make a bad lead/misdefend.

 

Like they might lead a club pretty often (partner opened diamonds), or maybe they'll try a trump, or in general maybe they'll misdefend because our hand is well disguised (never bidding our good 6 card suit). I suspect a diamond is almost always their best lead to tap our hand but that might be difficult to ever figure out.

 

Of course it's MP so 170 might do well but I think everyone might have the same troubles defending.

 

Basically this is the type of hand where I'd expect to have a significant edge over a double dummy simulation.

 

Your simulation is unfair to yourself though since I assume you open at least some balanced 11s in precision, and even though we might stop in 3 opposite that theres a chance 3 goes down which is a gain for not game trying.

[mike777]

None vul, matchpoints.  North deals.

 

♠KJx

♥xxxx

♦AQ9xx

♣A

 

♠Q98x

♥Kx

♦x

♣KQTxxx

1nt(14-16, offshape often)=2c(does not promise a major)

2h=3c(natural, gf)

3nt=p

 

well honest bidding....:(

[gnasher]

Playing completely standard methods:

 

1D 1S

2S 3C

3D 3S

P

What would your auction be if responder had Q98xx Kx xx KQTx ?

[awm]

1♦-1♠

2♠-2N (game try 4♠ only NF)

3N

 

Obviously not the greatest game, but it does have some chances. I suppose if you have methods where you can make a game try, hear that opener has a maximum, and then stop in a partial... and you choose to use those methods... then you can play 3♠. But honestly this sequence seems weird to me -- give opener a slightly different hand like Kxx Axxx QJxxx A and 3NT is quite good. And most of these auctions didn't even identify the shortage; give opener AKx x QJxxxx Axx and it's hard to imagine going down in 3NT (yes, a surprise diamond lead to an honor combined with the heart ace offside would do it).

[aguahombre]

Everyone likes the 2S raise, almost. And being one of the type who almost never do it, this is clearly the time to. Would end up in 3S with our methods, too (doesn't matter what they are)

[Jlall]

Playing completely standard methods:

 

1D 1S

2S 3C

3D 3S

P

What would your auction be if responder had Q98xx Kx xx KQTx ?

If I didn't bid 1D 1S 2S 4S (that's what I'd bid at imps dunno at MP maybe that's too cavalier?), I'd certainly bid 4S over 3D. To me 3D shows extra values. Not perfect since you never clarify whether you have 3 or 4 spades if you're min but that's why I play an asking bid usually. If I didn't bid 4S I would certainly bid at least 3H over which partner should bid 3N imo (which I'd correct to 4S) or 4S.

[mike777]

None vul, matchpoints.  North deals.

 

♠KJx

♥xxxx

♦AQ9xx

♣A

 

♠Q98x

♥Kx

♦x

♣KQTxxx

1nt(14-16, offshape often)=2c(does not promise a major)

2h=3c(natural, gf)

3nt=p

 

well honest bidding....:)

ok....sigh........

[bluecalm]

Well I don't really know how to quantify this, but I think that this is a hand that will be very easy to make a bad lead/misdefend.

 

Like they might lead a club pretty often (partner opened diamonds), or maybe they'll try a trump, or in general maybe they'll misdefend because our hand is well disguised (never bidding our good 6 card suit). I suspect a diamond is almost always their best lead to tap our hand but that might be difficult to ever figure out.

 

Of course it's MP so 170 might do well but I think everyone might have the same troubles defending.

 

Basically this is the type of hand where I'd expect to have a significant edge over a double dummy simulation.

 

Thanks for this post.

 

Your simulation is unfair to yourself though since I assume you open at least some balanced 11s in precision, and even though we might stop in 3 opposite that theres a chance 3 goes down which is a gain for not game trying.

 

Well, it's a bit unfair the other way around. The purpose was to see how often I will make game opposite hands which accept an invite and probably not all balanced 12's do :)

[kenrexford]

Playing completely standard methods:

 

1D 1S

2S 3C

3D 3S

P

What would your auction be if responder had Q98xx Kx xx KQTx ?

If I didn't bid 1D 1S 2S 4S (that's what I'd bid at imps dunno at MP maybe that's too cavalier?), I'd certainly bid 4S over 3D. To me 3D shows extra values. Not perfect since you never clarify whether you have 3 or 4 spades if you're min but that's why I play an asking bid usually. If I didn't bid 4S I would certainly bid at least 3H over which partner should bid 3N imo (which I'd correct to 4S) or 4S.

Justin, this approach seems dubious.

 

It seems like there are two very good arguments for why it is more important to indicate the 3-piece hand (unknown whether min or max) rather than to leave the with-a-minimum length unknown. In other words, to have 3♦ show 3-piece, unknown strength, rather then 3-piece maximum with 3♠ unknown strength.

 

First, when length is unimportant (Responder has five spades), you blast game on marginals anyway. When 4-3, you get hesitant even opposite a maximum.

 

Second, Opener can bid 3♦...3NT if he wants with the maximum, unless Responder passes, in which case that's probably right anyway.

[Fluffy]

just for something new

 

1♦-1♠

1NT-2♣

2♦-3♣

3NT

[Jlall]

Playing completely standard methods:

 

1D 1S

2S 3C

3D 3S

P

What would your auction be if responder had Q98xx Kx xx KQTx ?

If I didn't bid 1D 1S 2S 4S (that's what I'd bid at imps dunno at MP maybe that's too cavalier?), I'd certainly bid 4S over 3D. To me 3D shows extra values. Not perfect since you never clarify whether you have 3 or 4 spades if you're min but that's why I play an asking bid usually. If I didn't bid 4S I would certainly bid at least 3H over which partner should bid 3N imo (which I'd correct to 4S) or 4S.

Justin, this approach seems dubious.

 

It seems like there are two very good arguments for why it is more important to indicate the 3-piece hand (unknown whether min or max) rather than to leave the with-a-minimum length unknown. In other words, to have 3♦ show 3-piece, unknown strength, rather then 3-piece maximum with 3♠ unknown strength.

 

First, when length is unimportant (Responder has five spades), you blast game on marginals anyway. When 4-3, you get hesitant even opposite a maximum.

 

Second, Opener can bid 3♦...3NT if he wants with the maximum, unless Responder passes, in which case that's probably right anyway.

Hey Ken, I'm sure you're right but if you're going to make an artificial 3D bid showing 3 spades any strength then you're probably at the point where you use 2N as an asking bid heh. If you're playing with someone who cannot handle any artificiality then it makes sense to me to use 3S as any minimum since that seems "natural" to me and is what happens over game tries with less room (so it's symmetrical).

[kenrexford]

Fair point.