Bidding judgment

[CSGibson]

[hv=d=n&v=n&s=sat4hj9763dk84cq8]133|100|Scoring: IMP

1♣-(1♥)-1N-(2♥),

3♣-(P)-?[/hv]

 

GNT flight B teams, against a contending team. Playing 2/1, no good/bad 2N available in this partnership.

[akhare]

I would apply Hamman's rule and bid 3N. My Q♣ looks absolutely golden and hopefully we can run 6-7 ♣ tricks and with pard presumably having A♦ as well, we can try in this home.

 

If they X I might have second thoughts, but 5♣ looks remote...

[mike777]

1nt and then 3nt looks straightforward.....balanced hand...scattered hcp....etc.

 

If pard bids 4c as a club slam try over 3nt...great.

[jjbrr]

def go for the 9 trick game

[dake50]

Was my 1NT bal within range or did it promise H-stop?

Does partner's 3C now warn me H-Kx, H-QJx, H-Axx won't be enough opposite his H-void? 3NT is counter-partnership.

Having not neg-X, I choose 3S Q-bid: where are we going, partner?

[mikeh]

1nt and then 3nt looks straightforward.....balanced hand...scattered hcp....etc.

 

If pard bids 4c as a club slam try over 3nt...great.

if partner bids 4♣, it isn't a slam try...it's a cry for help.

 

He heard you bid 1N, showing (I assume) approximately this range of strength, altho usually a bit more in hearts and less outside.

 

He didn't even try for game! 3♣ is non-forcing...almost any hand with 7 clubs would bid it and so would most with 6.

 

You then bid 3N....if he has extras, he'll pass happily...he surely won't reason that your now-confirmed (but imaginary) values in hearts suddenly make his hand several tricks stronger than it had been.

 

Having said that, 3N appears to be clear.

 

1N was a bit of a distortion, but less of one than any other call I can think of, so I'd have done that as well. The hearts aren't good enough to play for a penalty.

[quiddity]

1nt looks normal for the first bid.

I didn't like 3nt initially because we have a really good hand for partner's clubs: 3 golden cards and nothing wasted opposite the void. He will never play us for such a hand if we bid 1n/3n, and if he has 16 points or so we could easily miss a club slam. But given that the opponents have both found a bid it seems more likely that he's in the 12-13 point range. 3nt looks like a better bet than 5C, so I'll bid it now.

[Jlall]

I hate 3N...we have no heart values and partner is probably void!

[Hanoi5]

I can't see why 3Nt gets so many votes. Pard is most likely void and we have good values for the club game. Even a slam could be possible, I voted 4♣ but I'm afraid my partner would pass, so maybe 5♣ is better.

[mike777]

in this forum we all agree pard is void...so what....

 

 

 

 

you can pass or 3nt or bid clubs.....

 

We are told pard bid a freebid one club and a freebid 3c...but not much more...:ph34r:

[mikeh]

I hate 3N...we have no heart values and partner is probably void!

So what? On what 3 card holding for LHO can they run more than 3 fast heart tricks? And on many our heart 9 stops them from even establishing the 4th in time to beat us.

 

xxx void Axxx AKxxxx or similar 11 or 12 counts is all we need to make game, and 5♣ is a long way off.

[zenko]

3 clubs of course does NOT promise anything special except some common sense when bidding on level 3, possibly in jaws of misfit, and saving them from playing in one. Another valid point is that we bring no ruffing values, if pard really has a ratty suit, playing in clubs might not be much better anyway.

[mike777]

fwiw

 

hate 1c shows nothing..I mean nothing.....

 

 

 

hate 3c shows nothing.......I mean nothing...

 

 

but ok expert forum...

[whereagles]

Since 3♣ is like 11-15 or so, I think I have to try for game here. 4♣, on grounds that all my hcp are working.

[CSGibson]

I hate 3N...we have no heart values and partner is probably void!

So what? On what 3 card holding for LHO can they run more than 3 fast heart tricks? And on many our heart 9 stops them from even establishing the 4th in time to beat us.

 

xxx void Axxx AKxxxx or similar 11 or 12 counts is all we need to make game, and 5♣ is a long way off.

or partner could be KJ9 void QJTx AJxxxx, where 5 clubs is a much better contract than 3N (actually the case).

 

Give LHO the T of hearts and RHO an ace outside of hearts, and 3N is hopeless.

[pooltuna]

I hate 3N...we have no heart values and partner is probably void!

So what? On what 3 card holding for LHO can they run more than 3 fast heart tricks? And on many our heart 9 stops them from even establishing the 4th in time to beat us.

 

xxx void Axxx AKxxxx or similar 11 or 12 counts is all we need to make game, and 5♣ is a long way off.

or partner could be KJ9 void QJTx AJxxxx, where 5 clubs is a much better contract than 3N (actually the case).

 

Give LHO the T of hearts and RHO an ace outside of hearts, and 3N is hopeless.

perhaps a simul is in order?

[Jlall]

I hate 3N...we have no heart values and partner is probably void!

So what? On what 3 card holding for LHO can they run more than 3 fast heart tricks? And on many our heart 9 stops them from even establishing the 4th in time to beat us.

 

xxx void Axxx AKxxxx or similar 11 or 12 counts is all we need to make game, and 5♣ is a long way off.

There are bids between 3C and 3N. I'm sure with AK sixth and an ace partner will bid 3N over whatever move (like 3H) we choose.

 

But if I had to choose one game for my life I'm sure I'd choose 5C. Luckily I don't have to since that is a close decision.

[gszeszycki]

surely 9 hcp and 5 hearts to the J (otherwise balanced and no 4 card spade suit) is sufficient to bid 1n. I might not be overjoyed but it is a VERY good description of my hand. The quandary comes after hearing the non forcing yet competitive 3c bid from a P KNOWN to be extremely short in hearts. Your partner has NO WAY of determining how many of your HCP are located within the enemy suit opposite their probable void. Even so we can rule out MANY hands that merely need a heart stop and another trick for 3n --- so mostly write off any thought of AKxxxxx type club suits with an outside ace because it was entirely too easy for P to say bid 2s or 3d with a hand similar to Axx void xxx AKxxxxx (or invert the spades/dia). My tendency is to think P has a hand similar to say Ax void QJxx KJTxxxx. I would hazard a 5c bid as the least dangerous option and one with high degreee of probabilty of success.

[peachy]

The answer to the first question should always be Yes. The only reason for Pass is that this hand is considered a penalty Pass of a potential re-opening double, and this hand is not strong enough nor good enough trumps for that.

 

Practical bid over 3C is 3NT. It does not always make though. I would not mind some other forward going bid below 3NT, but what would it mean?

[awm]

A lot of people seem to be guessing whether 3NT or 5♣ is better. But like Justin said, there are several bids here between 3♣ and 3NT.

 

What should 3♥ mean on this auction? Obviously it's a good hand (since 3♣ was not forcing). It seems like it should show fitting cards (a club honor, etc) but I don't want to bid 3NT on my own for some reason. The logical explanation seems to be a hand with only one heart stopper but otherwise really nice working values, asking partner if he thinks his clubs will run opposite one honor in my hand without having to lose a trick to establish them. The intent then is that partner can bid 3NT with runnable clubs (say AKxxxx since we hold the queen) or punt 4♣ or 5♣ otherwise (and we may raise 4♣ to 5♣ given how good our hand is opposite partner's shortage in hearts).

 

So my vote if for 3♥, which seems like a perfect description of the hand. :P

[Codo]

Sure we would be happy, if 3 ♥ does show THIS hand. But to me it does not. To me it would be more something like Axx,Qxx,xxxx,Qxx, asking for help in hearts.

 

So I may invite 3 ♠ as a strong club raise, but I would go for 3 NT because I lack the system to show my hand so that partner can judge what to do.