And you?

[shyams]

[hv=d=w&v=b&w=sajt2ha83d53ckq72&e=sk53ht952dakt984c]266|100|Scoring: XIMP[/hv]

At our table, the auction was brief: West (dealer) opened 1♣, North overcalled 2♥ which was passed out

 

How would you have bid the E/W hands? Please comment on our auction...

[Winstonm]

Everything looks reasonable to me.

[gwnn]

east should bid 3♦. I mean it's not a very happy decision to force to game on his 10 count with a void in partner's suit, but it is a nice suit and worth getting it into the auction.

[dicklont]

1♣ - (2♥) - 3♦ - pass

3NT - all pass

East stretches but his hand is too good to pass.

[spotlight7]

Hi:

 

Pass.

 

If you were going to bid, use Good Bad 2NT to compete 1C-(2H)-2NT*-3C-3D

 

The person with shortage in the enemy suit should strive to compete.

 

Neither partner has shortage so the other pair get to play this hand.

 

Regards,

Robert

[andy_h]

East has an obvious 3♦ bid. It may be "only a 10 count" but bridge is a bidder's game. If you're not appreciating your AK1098x enough then you will lose many imps in the long run. Who knows, maybe our heart suit may be key that it's opposite a singleton a slam is cold or maybe partner has a doubleton heart Hx and our ♥10 will be a 2nd stopper in 3NT. Too many good things can happen and it's a good thing that they pay bonuses for games! However, if we're 1 off in game then it shouldn't be the end of the world.

[ggwhiz]

3nt is really good but not cold if QJxx of diamonds or the club Ace are offside.

 

I favour passing as per spotlights reasons but with no opinion strong enough to question my pards choice either way.

 

[Edit:] Are we not going to bury 2 hearts and get a good (safe, at least decent) imp score? I can't believe the entire field finds game.

[bluecalm]

Passing with E hand is terrible. I mean, wtf ?

[whereagles]

Passing with E hand is perfectly reasonable. I mean, what if pard has 4126 with tons of wasted hcp in clubs?

 

3♦ is risky but has one redeeming feature, which is pard may have a 13-14 weak NT hand and game can be on (the case here). But pass is certainly a sensible bid.

[helene_t]

I'd rather play transfers than G/B here but with standard methods I would pass with the East hand.

[aguahombre]

I knew "terrible" or somesuch would be used to describe the choice of other posters. I think pass is reasonable, GB does not apply in our style, and a neg double might work out.

 

However, defending 2H after my choice (pass) will be just fine. We won't be able to hold them to 2 tricks for a push with 3NT. They will probably get 3. But 3NT could very easily fail for a nice swing against our opponents at the other table who chose the light 3D bid.

[Winstonm]

I always am curious if the same people who make the "obvious" 3D force are the same people who make the "obvious" 1C opening bid with Axxx, Axx, x, QJxxx? I'm not saying anyone is particularly right or wrong, here, but the "obvious" part is a little pushy I think.

[aguahombre]

I always am curious if the same people who make the "obvious" 3D force are the same people who make the "obvious" 1C opening bid with Axxx, Axx, x, QJxxx?  I'm not saying anyone is particularly right or wrong, here, but the "obvious" part is a little pushy I think.

"Obviously" that is one hand where 3D won't work out well.

"Obviously" example hands don't prove anything, and you were not trying to prove anything.

"Obviously" some of the same folks who would bid 3D on the given auction, seeing the given opener, would say how obviously awful the 3D bid was, if they saw your example opening bid on the forum question.

[Winstonm]

I always am curious if the same people who make the "obvious" 3D force are the same people who make the "obvious" 1C opening bid with Axxx, Axx, x, QJxxx?  I'm not saying anyone is particularly right or wrong, here, but the "obvious" part is a little pushy I think.

"Obviously" that is one hand where 3D won't work out well.

"Obviously" example hands don't prove anything, and you were not trying to prove anything.

"Obviously" some of the same folks who would bid 3D on the given auction, seeing the given opener, would say how obviously awful the 3D bid was, if they saw your example opening bid on the forum question.

You state the obvious. ;)

[gwnn]

I would open 1C with winstonm hand and force to game with this and God only knows where we would stop. I hope they don't double us. Anyway that is that hand, at least this hand I got a game swing against winstonm. When opps don't pass all the time my bidding is worse, obviously.

[rogerclee]

I think a huge point of this hand is to think about what will happen if you start with pass. If partner reopens, how will you bid your hand? I think it is clear that if this happens, you will have preferred to have started with 3D than pass.

 

How about if LHO raises hearts? Then you are about to have a stupid auction which probably breaks even with responding 3D at best, and is often much worse.

 

How about if partner will pass out 2H? Then it's bad; if partner has 3+ hearts you were probably cold for game, but in the more likely case that partner has 2 hearts and chooses not to reopen, defending 2H is probably a net slight negative.

 

So I think the important part of a hand like this is that even though it's true 3D is a little bit of an overbid, the alternative (pass) is just beyond terrible.

[Fluffy]

How would you have bid the E/W hands? Please comment on our auction...

1♣-(2♥)-3♣!-(pass)

3♦-all pass

 

3♣= ♦s invitational or more.

[jdonn]

If you bid 3♦ you certainly might get too high. But, you just can't pass, you can't! How will you ever show your hand when partner does anything but pass it out? And even if he does you might well have made 3NT. I mean, passing is just bad! Why try to be a genius just bid your hand.

[kgr]

How would you have bid the E/W hands? Please comment on our auction...

1♣-(2♥)-3♣!-(pass)

3♦-all pass

 

3♣= ♦s invitational or more.

Same for me.

After 1m-(2M)-?? we play Rubensohl

[shyams]

I was East. This is one of those deals where my thought process was surprisingly well organized (even if misguided) at the table. I still remember most of the things that I considered in the 7-8 seconds after the 2♥ bid was put on the table.

 

1. I thought the vulnerability was vital on this board. If they were non-vul, I had a very easy 3♦. I realise that many top posters said it is obvious to bid with the East hand; but one of the reasons I considered pass is because I was OK playing 2♥x

2. I thought if partner has 0-1 ♥ card (and 4-card ♠) he will reopen with a dbl. My plan was to bid 4♦ (invites game?) or pass for penalty if this happens

3. I thought partner has a decent chance he will double if he had 4-2-3-4 with xx in ♥.

4. I also thought partner will surely bid with 5-4 or 6-4 in the black suits and a minimum

5. I honestly never considered what happens if partner held a 3-card ♥ suit.

 

I agree that passing was probably wrong. This time it worked well as most people who bid 3NT went down (although partner was in top form and would've made it).

[MFA]

3♦. I don't have a problem with that. Opposite a weak NT type, 3NT is often a good shot. For instance.

 

I was East. This is one of those deals where my thought process was surprisingly well organized (even if misguided) at the table. I still remember most of the things that I considered in the 7-8 seconds after the 2♥ bid was put on the table.

 

1. I thought the vulnerability was vital on this board. If they were non-vul, I had a very easy 3♦. I realise that many top posters said it is obvious to bid with the East hand; but one of the reasons I considered pass is because I was OK playing 2♥x

2. I thought if partner has 0-1 ♥ card (and 4-card ♠) he will reopen with a dbl. My plan was to bid 4♦ (invites game?) or pass for penalty if this happens

3. I thought partner has a decent chance he will double if he had 4-2-3-4 with xx in ♥.

4. I also thought partner will surely bid with 5-4 or 6-4 in the black suits and a minimum

5. I honestly never considered what happens if partner held a 3-card ♥ suit.

 

I agree that passing was probably wrong. This time it worked well as most people who bid 3NT went down (although partner was in top form and would've made it).

A few comments:

 

Ad 2.

Passing partner's reopening double would be much too speculative. We are only at the 2-level and have no safety at all playing for penalty here. We don't control the trumps and we don't know if partner really controls clubs.

Partner could have AQJx, -, QJxx, Axxxx. Unlucky, sure, but we might very well be conceding a doubled partscore with a cold grand slam our way.

 

4♦ feels like an underbid and bypasses 3NT. That's part of the problem with passing, as rogerclee says.

 

Ad 3.

Generally, partner should pass with a weak NT. With a good hand, perfect shape 4-2-3-4 and everything working, he might double, just as you say. But that leaves him passing a lot of ugly hands with ♥Hx or three cards ♥. Just the ones where we often make 3NT. :)

 

Ad 4.

"Surely bid" with 5-4/6-4 blacks is an overbid. He knows that with spades we would have had a convenient negative double available.

[whereagles]

If you bid 3♦ you certainly might get too high. But, you just can't pass, you can't! How will you ever show your hand when partner does anything but pass it out? And even if he does you might well have made 3NT. I mean, passing is just bad! Why try to be a genius just bid your hand.

Of course you can pass. Partner is very likely to be short in hearts, so odds are pretty good he'll reopen this. If it goes, say,

 

1♣ 2♥ pass pass

dbl pass

 

you can now use the Robson/Segal 17 year-old gadget, lebensohl 2NT (they call it lebensohl, yes), to show a "good" bid. In this particular case this mean you bid a straight 3♦ to show a decent hand within the pass. You'd show a lousier hand by bidding 2NT and pulling 3♣ to 3♦.

 

One final note: to show your hand is a good principle, but good bidding is more than that. In this situation, you have to make a decision: whether to just bid your hand or to be cautious due to looming misfit. Whatever you decide is, in my opinion, fine. I just don't think bidding 3♦ is the only sensible action.

[gwnn]

so what do you do Nuno if it goes

 

1♣-2♥-p-3♥

p-p-?

[pooltuna]

[hv=d=w&v=b&w=sajt2ha83d53ckq72&e=sk53ht952dakt984c]266|100|Scoring: XIMP[/hv]

At our table, the auction was brief: West (dealer) opened 1♣, North overcalled 2♥ which was passed out

 

How would you have bid the E/W hands? Please comment on our auction...

Well everyone always talks about it but never seems to consider it a real auction how about upgrading the West hand and opening 1NT

[jdonn]

What is with passing then bidding 3♦ or 4♦? Even if playing 2NT as lebensohl, the first one shows both kings less than this, the second one shows an ace less than this. You can't cater your system to passing game forcing hands over the overcall!