bridge problem from romania

[gwnn]

This is a hand I found in a Romanian bridge book from 1995.

 

AQ8

AK42

A

AQ953

 

T97543

QJ8

72

K6

 

N opens at unfavourable 1♣ promising 17 points

 

1♣-3♦-3♠-p

4♦-p-4♠-p

6♠-p-p-p

 

3♠ was GF 4♦ was forcing, almost always with fit.

 

West leads a diamond.

[bluecalm]

♣ to the K and ♠ to the Q ?

 

It wins with spades 2-2; Kxx - x and even with spades 4-0.

I guess that if it was that simple it wouldn't make this forum though.

[blackshoe]

If memory serves (it may not) this is similar to a hand in one of Rosenkranz's books, in which the correct play at trick two is the ♠A. This loses (I think) only when the spades are not 2-2, the shortage is on declarer's left, and an honor does not fall.

[Hanoi5]

I think finessing the ♠Q is better as you don't lose against Kxx in West.

[gnasher]

If diamonds are 3=7, a 4=0 spade break is, a priori, as likely as singleton king offside. Hence cashing ♠A isn't necessarily better than a first-round spade finesse.

[gnasher]

I think finessing the ♠Q is better as you don't lose against Kxx in West.

Neither line loses to ♠Kxx in West. After ♠A, dropping the jack, you cross to hand, ruff a diamond, and lead a trump from dummy.

[Little Kid]

♠ to the A and then another ♠ to dummy seems like the best line intuitively.

[cherdanno]

I think finessing the ♠Q is better as you don't lose against Kxx in West.

Neither line loses to ♠Kxx in West. After ♠A, dropping the jack, you cross to hand, ruff a diamond, and lead a trump from dummy.

But cashing ♠A loses to ♠KJx with West.

[Hanoi5]

Yeah I meant KJx

[RichMor]

How about the Spade Q at trick 2?

 

This keeps control and avoids the risk of crossing to the closed hand, losing a Spade finesse, and suffering a ruff.

 

RichM

[gnasher]

How about the Spade Q at trick 2?

 

This keeps control and avoids the risk of crossing to the closed hand, losing a Spade finesse, and suffering a ruff.

 

RichM

That loses to KJx on the left, KJxx on the left, or singleton K in either hand. It only gains over the spade finesse when RHO has 2065/2056 with ♠Kx.

[Free]

This hand is not only about trumps...

 

♠A, and if no honour falls I continue with 3 rounds of ♣ trying to discard my ♦.

[kenrexford]

This hand is not only about trumps...

 

♠A, and if no honour falls I continue with 3 rounds of ♣ trying to discard my ♦.

Interesting problem. If LHO has KJx and pops King, he then can force a ruff in dummy and promote his Jack.

 

If everyone follows to the spade, with no honor, then the question is percentages. Clubs need to be 3-3 OR the person with two clubs only needs to have started with the Kx in trumps.

[gnasher]

This hand is not only about trumps...

 

♠A, and if no honour falls I continue with 3 rounds of ♣ trying to discard my ♦.

Compared with the spade finesse, that gains when LHO has ♠K singleton, but loses when he has Jx and a doubleton club, or a spade void.

 

Given that singleton king is as likely as a void, that doesn't sound much of a bargain to me.

[RichMor]

How about the Spade Q at trick 2?

 

This keeps control and avoids the risk of crossing to the closed hand, losing a Spade finesse, and suffering a ruff.

 

RichM

That loses to KJx on the left, KJxx on the left, or singleton K in either hand. It only gains over the spade finesse when RHO has 2065/2056 with ♠Kx.

Right.

 

I need to clean my glasses before I look at play problems. Thought South had the Spade J.

 

RichM

[billw55]

Interesting ..

 

It looks like you are always down when righty holds ♠KJx(x). That is 3 of 16 possible spade layouts. ♠A and another from hand looks like it wins against all 13 other layouts. So how could this be improved on?

[gnasher]

Interesting ..

 

It looks like you are always down when righty holds ♠KJx(x). That is 3 of 16 possible spade layouts. ♠A and another from hand looks like it wins against all 13 other layouts. So how could this be improved on?

As Cherdano pointed out two days ago, that line loses to KJx onside, because LHO can win ♠K and force dummy. It also loses to a spade void on the right.

[billw55]

As Cherdano pointed out two days ago, that line loses to KJx onside, because LHO can win ♠K and force dummy. It also loses to a spade void on the right.

ah, clever, I missed that post. Thanks ;)

 

... hmmm ...

 

So back to low to the Q first then cash the A? That gains v. KJx(x) and loses to bare K on the right, which seems like a good trade.

[CSGibson]

This hand is not only about trumps...

 

♠A, and if no honour falls I continue with 3 rounds of ♣ trying to discard my ♦.

Compared with the spade finesse, that gains when LHO has ♠K singleton, but loses when he has Jx and a doubleton club, or a spade void.

 

Given that singleton king is as likely as a void, that doesn't sound much of a bargain to me.

Yes, but a finesse of the 8 loses whenever RHO has any singleton honor, which is twice as likely as a void (using your numbers, not mine). I think the best line is to cash the ace of trump. If an honor falls, you are home. If not, then 3 rounds of clubs pitching the diamond. You win if clubs are 3-3, or if the person with short clubs has the Kx of spades originally, or if RHO has short clubs and spades.

 

That sounds like a lot of chances to me.

 

Edit: just realized that Gnasher is probably not finessing the 8, but the Q instead, coming back to the hand if trump are 4-0, and then finessing again, forcing an honor. That's probably a better line after all.

[Free]

This hand is not only about trumps...

 

♠A, and if no honour falls I continue with 3 rounds of ♣ trying to discard my ♦.

Interesting problem. If LHO has KJx and pops King, he then can force a ruff in dummy and promote his Jack.

~snip~

I probably misunderstand. But when would LHO pop his ♠K? Under the Ace? If he does, he'll still only make 1 ♠ trick, so contract made. :)

[Cyberyeti]

This hand is not only about trumps...

 

♠A, and if no honour falls I continue with 3 rounds of ♣ trying to discard my ♦.

Interesting problem. If LHO has KJx and pops King, he then can force a ruff in dummy and promote his Jack.

~snip~

I probably misunderstand. But when would LHO pop his ♠K? Under the Ace? If he does, he'll still only make 1 ♠ trick, so contract made. :unsure:

You cash the A, cross back to hand, lead towards the Q, he flies in with the K and forces you to ruff with the Q promoting the J.

[gwnn]

points according to the book

 

-three clubs at tricks 2-4: 5 points

-finesse at trick 3: 3 points

-Ace of trump at trick 2 then three trumps: 1 point

-otherwise: 0

 

if East ruffs with an honour we sluff the diamond and finesse against the other honour, if he ruffs low we overruff and play a spade to the 8.

 

it's a nice solution that i never would have found (i just finessed at trick 3) but I am not sure it's correct.

[cherdanno]

Hmm is the book line really better than the finesse at trick 3?

The finesse loses against ♠K singleton with RHO. The book line loses whenever RHO has ♠Hx and at most 2 clubs (he should ruff the third club low).

 

Edit: I guess the book assumes RHO will ruff high when he can. Well from Kx is is really obvious to ruff low. I think from Jx good players will also find it without giving anything away.

[bluecalm]

Looks like books answers are mixed up imo.

[Free]

This hand is not only about trumps...

 

♠A, and if no honour falls I continue with 3 rounds of ♣ trying to discard my ♦.

Interesting problem. If LHO has KJx and pops King, he then can force a ruff in dummy and promote his Jack.

~snip~

I probably misunderstand. But when would LHO pop his ♠K? Under the Ace? If he does, he'll still only make 1 ♠ trick, so contract made. :unsure:

You cash the A, cross back to hand, lead towards the Q, he flies in with the K and forces you to ruff with the Q promoting the J.

That's not gonna happen. If no honour falls, I'll play 3 rounds of ♣, not another round of ♠! I'll return to my hand later on with ♥Q to play on ♠s.

If an honour falls, it's safe to play ♠Q.