Resolving your fit

[paulg]

I play 2/1 as game forcing unless responder rebids his suit. This creates an issue when responder wishes to make a forcing rebid in his suit and the normal answer is to either bid a forcing 2NT or bid another suit.

 

A hand last weekend has left us wondering how we would bid some of these hands:

 

[hv=d=w&v=n&w=s7xxxhaqjxxdkxckx&e=sakqthxdaqxxxxcqt]266|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

Our auction was:

1♥   2♦

2♥   2♠

3♠   ?

 

My concern is that we will have the same auction if the hands were:

 

[hv=d=w&v=n&w=s7xxxhaqjxxdkxckx&e=sakqthxdaqxxxxcqt]266|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

And I wonder how we should differentiate between them in moving forward.

 

I think it is clear that 3NT is probably not a viable contract at this point, as you either have a 4-4 major fit or responder has three spades and a suit unguarded (else 2NT instead of 2♠). So this is available for something else (Serious/non-serious/cue bid/setting a suit).

 

How do you handle this?

 

Paul

[gordontd]

I think it is clear that 3NT is probably not a viable contract at this point,

Doubtless I've missed something completely obvious, but I can't see how this is true of the given hands.

[655321]

I have sometimes played that

• 2NT shows a club stopper, denies four card spades.
  
• 3♠ shows four card spades, denies a proper club stopper
  
• 3NT shows a club stopper and four spades.
  

[paulg]

I think it is clear that 3NT is probably not a viable contract at this point,

Doubtless I've missed something completely obvious, but I can't see how this is true of the given hands.

Perhaps I should have said that it looks difficult for the partnership to be confident that 3NT is the right spot, or even a fair spot, on such an auction.

 

Does 3NT promise a club stop, a half-stop, or could it be any 4252 or 3172 hand? When would West leave 3NT in?

 

So I think there is a case for using it as artificial.

[nige1]

I have sometimes played that

• 
   
  
• 2NT shows a club stopper, denies four card spades.
   
  
• 3♠ shows four card spades, denies a proper club stopper
   
  
• 3NT shows a club stopper and four spades.
   
  

That seems cunning B)

[ONEferBRID]

I proposed a system ( which nobody uses ) some years ago when someone inquired about differentiating between a "Flannery type" hand vs a true Reverse hand ( w/4s and "extras" ) after a 1H opening and a 2m! 2/1 GF response:

 

♠ 7xxx

♥ AQJxx

♦ Kx

♣ Kx

 

♠ AKQT

♥ x

♦ AQxxxx

♣ QT

 

 

1H   -  2D! ( 2/1 GF )

2H!  -  2S! ( asks)*

3H*  -  3S ( sets trumps and asking for a courtesy cue )

4C  -  4NT ( thank you for that Cl Ctrl cue; must be A or K )

5D ( 1 key ) - 6S ( may have to rely on the Diam hook if no dK )

 

___________________________________________________

 

2H! = shows a minimum open with either (a) 4s or (b ) no 4s

*After the 2S!-asking what type of minimum:

2NT = (b ) no 4s

3C = (a) 4s and Cl shortness

3D = (a) 4s and Diam shortness

3H* = (a) 4 5 2 2

 

If Opener had "extras" , then the direct rebids over 2D! would be:

2S = true reverse, showing extras

2NT = no 4s, unbalanced, and extras

3H-jump, no 4s, 6+h and extras

[Winstonm]

If I understand the question correctly, it is how to differentiate between manufactured suit bids and real suit bids after having made a 2/1?

 

In theory, the choices seem limited if you are looking for a degree of simplicity.

1) Limit the damage by exluding one suit as never being artificial.

2) Use strong jump shifts as the initial bid with strong 1-suiters or the corollary that immediate jump shifts are invitational and slow rebids forcing.

3) Use 2NT as a catchall forcing bid.

 

Unless you are using Bergen, of the three choices the easiest is simply to use the strong jump shift.

[Fluffy]

I have a rule, when I bid a suit I don't really have, and partner raises, I run to 3NT if possible, partner will know what is going on. In your example I see no problem, since he knows you didn't bid 2NT because you don't stop clubs, hence if he doesn't wanna paly 3NT he can bid on.

[ONEferBRID]

2nd hand ( see my previous post for the system ):

 

♠ 7xxx

♥ AQJxx

♦ Kx

♣ Kx

 

♠ AKT

♥ x

♦ AQJxxxx

♣ QT

 

1H               -    2D!

2H!(min)       -    2S! ( asks, not tells )

3H!( 4 5 2 2 ) -   4D

4H! ( cue )      -   4S! ( cue )

5C!( cue )      -    6D

[pooltuna]

I play 2/1 as game forcing unless responder rebids his suit. This creates an issue when responder wishes to make a forcing rebid in his suit and the normal answer is to either bid a forcing 2NT or bid another suit.

 

A hand last weekend has left us wondering how we would bid some of these hands:

 

[hv=d=w&v=n&w=s7xxxhaqjxxdkxckx&e=sakqthxdaqxxxxcqt]266|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

Our auction was:

1♥   2♦

2♥   2♠

3♠   ?

 

My concern is that we will have the same auction if the hands were:

 

[hv=d=w&v=n&w=s7xxxhaqjxxdkxckx&e=sakqthxdaqxxxxcqt]266|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

And I wonder how we should differentiate between them in moving forward.

 

I think it is clear that 3NT is probably not a viable contract at this point, as you either have a 4-4 major fit or responder has three spades and a suit unguarded (else 2NT instead of 2♠). So this is available for something else (Serious/non-serious/cue bid/setting a suit).

 

How do you handle this?

 

Paul

With the west hand make a sensible rebid of 2NT unless that promises something ridiculous in your system for this auction.