A lebensohl question

[jerryblu]

Playing lebensohl (or Rubensohl similarly), when the bidding goes 1NT-2S, responder with a GF & a stopper and a 4 card heart suit bids 2NT and then cuebids spades.

 

But if the bidding goes 1NT-2S-2NT-3S then what? Opener cant bid because responder might have only a club competitive hand. Responder has two possible bids: dbl and 3NT. That sounds like penalty and a minor oriented gf hand with a stopper.

 

I dont see any easy way to get a third meaning expressed. There are good logical reasons to say that either 3NT or the double should show a heart suit.

 

How do you play it?

 

(The problem does not arise for other suits, because the "other major" can always be bid naturally by responder.)

[Jlall]

X shows 4 hearts, 3N shows a 3N bid with a stopper and without hearts. Penalty does not exist.

 

Also I like to play negative doubles so with 4 hearts and a stopper I'd always start wtih X, and with 4 hearts and short spades I would start with a cue. If you played this I guess you could play X = some pen hand and 3N = 3N bid with stopper, but honestly the first hand type doesn't seem that useful. Maybe at MP if you had a goodish 3 of a minor signoff.

[Siegmund]

It's awfully rare that you will decide NOT to seek a penalty against 2♠, then decide on the next round that you want to nail 3♠. jlall's approach seems the obvious and sensible one.

 

[Edited to add: in the context of off-the-shelf Lebensohl.]

[straube]

Playing Rubensohl...

 

1N (2S) 3H shows 4 hearts (w/ or w/out a stopper) and lets opener bid 3S to deny a stopper.

 

After

 

1N (2S) 3H (3S)

 

opener can pass without a stopper or bid 3N with a stopper. I guess dbl is penalty unless otherwise agreed.

[jerryblu]

Thanks for the replies. I had hoped for more people to comment, and quite frankly, given the number of variant methods being used, and the way people tend to have strong opinions about these things, I had hoped for some disagreements. Maybe another day or so will bring me more grist for my mill. :(

[JanM]

Like Justin, I play negative DBLs after 1NT-(2X) and also play that a cue bid shows a game force with a splinter in the opponent's suit - immediate cue promises 4 cards in the other Major, 2NT ... cue denies 4 cards in the other major; 2NT ... 3NT denies a stopper. In that context, when they raise, DBL shows that I would have rebid 3NT (the hand where we're most likely want to defend) and 3NT shows that I would have cue-bid (splinter in their suit, so less likely to want to defend). With a hand where I was trying to sign off in 3 of a lower suit, I just pass their raise.

 

Incidentally, I also play transfer Lebensohl and it wouldn't have occurred to me to use 1NT-(2♠)-3♥ as 4 hearts. It would either be the cue-bid or show clubs, if the cue-bid is 3♠. I mention that only because it's a good thing to clarify if you agree to play transfer Lebensohl.