What card to play defending?

[serapuff]

IMPS, unfavorable, Dealer North

 

Dummy:

♠ AQT62

♥ 5

♦ J85

♣ J965

 

Your hand (South):

♠ 73

♥ T872

♦ KQ3

♣ 8742

 

West North East South

1♥ 1NT 2♥

3♥ Pass 3♠ Pass

4♠ Pass Pass Pass

 

You lead 7H, pd wins the KH.

Pd plays KC, declarer wins with the Ace of club

 

Playing UDCA, what do you play?

[jdonn]

I had to stare at the hands and auction for about 2 minutes to figure out the formatting and which hand dummy was. Here is a start:

 

[hv=d=n&v=n&w=saqt62h5dj85cj965&s=s73ht872dkq3c8742]266|200|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

N-----E-----S-----W

1♥..1NT...2♥...3♥

P.....3♠.....P....4♠

P......P......P

[Little Kid]

Thanks for making it clearer as to what is what jdonn, I got confused too. Would play small ♣ now

[serapuff]

Thanks Jdonn!

 

Yes I'm still trying to figure out how to use this forums =)

[Jlall]

8.

[jjbrr]

8. you want a ♦ switch.

[serapuff]

I guess more specifically, is this a count situation or an attitude situation?

[dredog03]

8. attitude. it's obvious what to shift to, if not continue clubs. a count doesn't seem important here. but my opinion is somewhat biased.

[jjbrr]

I guess more specifically, is this a count situation or an attitude situation?

Definitely an attitude situation. If you want a ruff, you can encourage.

[bluecalm]

I would give count. I am not convinced it's better just seems to be consistent with general rules I have with my partners (give attitude in the suit if that matters if not count, if not S/P).

[Phil]

8 here too. I'd be surprised it matters.

[jjbrr]

I would give count. I am not convinced it's better just seems to be consistent with general rules I have with my partners (give attitude in the suit if that matters if not count, if not S/P).

How does attitute not matter on this hand? You want partner not to play clubs anymore lol

[Little Kid]

I like to give count here, with the agreement attitude>count>suit preference. It looks like a minority though, so maybe its a bad idea :blink: I would like to see a possible layout where it could actually matter on this hand.

[bluecalm]

How does attitute not matter on this hand? You want partner not to play clubs anymore lol

 

Damn I somehow thought it's clear I don't have A♣ here.

Obviously 8♣ then as partner will lead Q from KQT/KQx seeing a low card which will establish 2 discards for declarer.

[serapuff]

Yes, I thought attitude (I have no ace) and suit preference (not Hearts) was obvious. Seemed like the only useful thing to give partner was count, so that he can get full count of the hand on top of clubs?

[jjbrr]

2 is an even number, last time I checked.

[Bbradley62]

Since I bid, partner should expect me to have something (although admitted not much). Seeing the first trick, he might think I have the Q♥, but he should expect me to have another card. Clearly, it's not in the black suits, so I must have a ♦ honor. So, there's no need to go out of my way to tell him that I have a card that he can already figure out that I have. But he might want to know how many clubs I have, to help him determine whether to cash Q♣. Therefore, I'd give count.

[Little Kid]

You can't even have the Q♥, declarer bid 1NT.

[655321]

I would play the 8 to discourage, but on this hand I can't see why it matters.

 

Partner has ♥AK and ♣KQ, declarer has the rest of the high cards.

So declarer is likely to draw trumps, and I am struggling to think of a layout where the club we play makes a difference. Did declarer show a 4 card spade suit? If declarer is 4342 with the ♣10 he can play a club, or if declarer as expected has ♥QJ he can pitch dummy's diamonds on the hearts and make 10 tricks, etc. Even if declarer has fewer than 4 spades and we encourage clubs, and partner somehow gets in, why wouldn't he play a diamond regardless of which club we played?

[serapuff]

2 is an even number, last time I checked.

Yup - playing udca, 2 will be the card to show count

[serapuff]

I would play the 8 to discourage, but on this hand I can't see why it matters.

 

Partner has ♥AK and ♣KQ, declarer has the rest of the high cards.

So declarer is likely to draw trumps, and I am struggling to think of a layout where the club we play makes a difference. Did declarer show a 4 card spade suit? If declarer is 4342 with the ♣10 he can play a club, or if declarer as expected has ♥QJ he can pitch dummy's diamonds on the hearts and make 10 tricks, etc. Even if declarer has fewer than 4 spades and we encourage clubs, and partner somehow gets in, why wouldn't he play a diamond regardless of which club we played?

I guess, the question here is still whether the card you play shows count or attitude.

 

Is attitude obvious? (I.e you clearly do not want this suit continued, so it can't be attitude?)

 

Is suit preference obvious? (Dummy has a singleton and you probably *won't* want a H return)

[jjbrr]

2 is an even number, last time I checked.

Yup - playing udca, 2 will be the card to show count

No, you missed the point. It would be a disaster if partner played you for a doubleton club. This is the problem with playing count.

 

If you play attitude here, you only encourage with a doubleton and discourage with more than a doubleton. Partner is very, very rarely going to need to know whether you have 3 or 4 clubs, but he will almost always need to know if you have 2 or 4. This ambiguity is just not necessary, and it's going to cost a lot when partner guesses wrong.

 

If you play attitude, you get the benefit of being able to show the only count relevant to partner without any ambiguity.

[655321]

I guess, the question here is still whether the card you play shows count or attitude.

 

Is attitude obvious? (I.e you clearly do not want this suit continued, so it can't be attitude?)

 

Is suit preference obvious? (Dummy has a singleton and you probably *won't* want a H return)

That's easy. A fast 2 shows a doubleton, and a slow 2 is suit preference.

 

Oh wait...

[Tomi2]

why should this be a eng/disc situation, all honors in this suit are clear to every player at the table including the dummy. Partner is not on lead anymore, if he ever gains the lead, he will have another singnal from me, this will be a suit preference. Then he will have the full count, because I give him the count singal and see that I have something in dias other than hearts.

If I play the 8, pd will misjudge the whole layout by one card. Since he should have the Cl 10 as well for his defense, I won't think, that he will try to give me a ruff on a natural trick. At some point he will switch to dias anyway but I want to show him now how to handle the club suit, once he regains the lead, leads a dia to me and I return a club

[dredog03]

What if partner doesn't have the ♣Q? I mean, if he has it, he will know to lead a diamond next time he is in for fear of setting up dummy's jack, and it's hard to see how count can be important to him. From the auction, you could very well have only the ♥J and a minor suit Q in high cards. He needs to know it's not the ♣Q.