9-card suit

[hanp]

Q9

xx

AJ10xxxxxx

-

 

All vulnerable, RHO opens 1H.

[gwnn]

5♦-I have 9 diamonds and 4 cards in the majors, that means I should bid to the 5 level.

[rbforster]

Not sure I'd open 5D at these colors but it seems easy to bid it now. Partner rates to have his share of points so might make or go down only 2 vs their game. Plus theymight guess wrong over 5D a lot moreso than only 4D.

[cherdanno]

It's maybe the worst possible major suit holding for that, but it's still a 9-card suit, I bid 5♦.

[rogerclee]

5♦-I have 9 diamonds and 4 cards in the majors, that means I should bid to the 5 level.

Do you mean you are lucky to have only 4 cards in the majors (given that you have 9 diamonds)?

[hanp]

It was matchpoints by the way.

[Jlall]

4D

[hanp]

5D works out very poorly as you get doubled and go down 1. Partner has AJxxxx x - AQxxxx.

[gwnn]

Can I get a new partner? :angry:

[pooltuna]

4D

unless you are feeling real adventuresome and then 3♥ :angry:

and since your partner is playing it you better remember you don't have to outrun the bear :)

[jdonn]

4♦ seems normal to me with these major suit holdings, and for a 9 card suit it's not so great anyway.

[cherdanno]

I think I might bid 4D at MPs, 5D at IMPs.

[Fluffy]

9 carder equal vul, I really doubt I'd do anything but bid 5♦. And I'd think of anyone who suggest otherwise that he is being resulting.

[jdonn]

9 carder equal vul, I really doubt I'd do anything but bid 5♦. And I'd think of anyone who suggest otherwise that he is being resulting.

Resulting? Vulnerable at mps?? Unless you are making (and partner would probably then raise a vul 4♦ anyway) you need something like no diamond losers and partner cover a loser in the majors, AND that the opponents were making game. Yes they could do the wrong thing also by bidding 5 of their major when they shouldn't, which is the only thing that I believe prevents 5♦ from being a really bad bid!

[Phil]

4♦

 

Make my majors 3-1 and I would probably bid 5, dunno.

[cherdanno]

9 carder equal vul, I really doubt I'd do anything but bid 5♦. And I'd think of anyone who suggest otherwise that he is being resulting.

Resulting? Vulnerable at mps?? Unless you are making (and partner would probably then raise a vul 4♦ anyway) you need something like no diamond losers and partner cover a loser in the majors, AND that the opponents were making game. Yes they could do the wrong thing also by bidding 5 of their major when they shouldn't, which is the only thing that I believe prevents 5♦ from being a really bad bid!

Lets not exaggerate. If opponents make game, we need only one out of "no diamond losers" and "partner covers a major suit loser".

[jdonn]

9 carder equal vul, I really doubt I'd do anything but bid 5♦. And I'd think of anyone who suggest otherwise that he is being resulting.

Resulting? Vulnerable at mps?? Unless you are making (and partner would probably then raise a vul 4♦ anyway) you need something like no diamond losers and partner cover a loser in the majors, AND that the opponents were making game. Yes they could do the wrong thing also by bidding 5 of their major when they shouldn't, which is the only thing that I believe prevents 5♦ from being a really bad bid!

Lets not exaggerate. If opponents make game, we need only one out of "no diamond losers" and "partner covers a major suit loser".

Wasn't exagerting, honest mistake so fair enough. I stand by the conclusion in any case. And obviously as you said it's better at imps.

[Jlall]

It's not way better at imps, often they don't make a game. A phantom save is terrible at imps. We have an ace, a void, a random queen, and 2-2 in the majors (they may not even have a fit!). That is a lot of defense. On the offensive side we have not much, and they are almost certain to make the best lead. If we have a good save (200 vs a game), partner will often be well placed to take it after our 4D bid. Partner's hand is completely unknown, so I'm much more worried about just going for a number vs nothing than going for 800 vs 620 or w/e.

 

Obviously sometimes 5D will make them guess wrong, and that is by far its biggest upside, but most of the time once youre at the 5 level vul they're just going to shrug and double.

 

Also lol @ me resulting, I bid 4D before the results were posted. If your brain is not capable of looking beyond "omg I have a 9 card suit I must bid FIVE diamonds!" that's fine but don't say others are "resulting" because they are able to think a little more critically than that.

[jdonn]

All those results that are bad at imps are also bad at mps, but the opposite is not true. (And I didn't say "way" better).

[Jlall]

All those results that are bad at imps are also bad at mps, but the opposite is not true. (And I didn't say "way" better).

Yeah but I think you get a lot of -500s instead of -620/-650ss when you bid 5D. Those are huge at MP and will make up for a lot of the phantom saves. At imps, obv you're now winning 3 or 4 or losing.. a lot heh.

 

Also, people are more likely to be geniuses and bid 5H at MP fearing specifically 650 vs 500, but at imps they will be much more likely to just crack you and take the cash imo.

[Cascade]

The example hand is a trick short of my minimum requirement for 5♦.

[Pict]

So say 4D is right, for a complete answer, does that mean we pass out 4H from RHO?

[MarkDean]

I can see why some people are bidding 4♦, but I would go for 5. (I admit I am a bit like the people jlall is mocking...zomg 9 diamonds, I must bid 5).

[gwnn]

5♦-I have 9 diamonds and 4 cards in the majors, that means I should bid to the 5 level.

Do you mean you are lucky to have only 4 cards in the majors (given that you have 9 diamonds)?

nah I just invented a new law, substract the number of major suit cards from your longest minor. But maybe it was square root of longest minor+square root of majors. Now i don't remember. oh right I was trying to say that science has little to do with all this, finally I understood my post.

 

Anyway yes, I am one of the simplistic people who always bid 5♦ when they have 9. I don't think partner can bid intelligently over 4♦ (i.e. save often when we have -200 vs game). That said, I do not have a lot of experience with 9 card suits.

[Jlall]

I don't think partner can bid intelligently over 4♦ (i.e. save often when we have -200 vs game). That said, I do not have a lot of experience with 9 card suits.

Think about what we need for -200, at least Kx of diamonds and the SK, and even then if he has 4 hearts we are at risk on 3 rounds of hearts of losing a trump.

 

Usually we're gonna need 3 diamonds (which will include an honor) and an ace (or the SK)...and even then if it's the CA we are going to be down 500.

 

Alternatively he might have 3 diamonds and a stiff major.

 

With all of those hands except Kx of diamonds and the SK and out I would expect partner to bid 5D every time.