JT854 J83 7542 J

[straube]

2nd seat unfav imps

 

1C P P 1D

dbl ?

[CSGibson]

pass. When you show support with this sort of hand, all you're really doing is giving free information to opponents, helping them judge their degree of fit. Besides, you'll get another bite at this apple later if you judge to come back in the auction.

[Codo]

Which information do I give to the opps? That opener has short diamonds? They know it already.

 

So if you pass, you do so because all other bids have their flaws too.

I would bid 2 ♦ if this is avaiable as a weak raise. Hopefully they will have more problems in reaching the right strain then.

I doubt, that 1 spade or 3 diamonds will make it worse for them, despite the fact that this may work much better from time to time.

[lmilne]

could throw in a cheeky heart.

 

would bid 3D at other colours, pass at unfav i think.

[Fluffy]

I pass because I have nothing at all, partner is wide ranged, but we are also wide ranged (Even more), any bid made now should promise more strenght than this.

[Jlall]

I'd bid 2D

[pooltuna]

I'd bid 2D

How horrible!!! Now why would you want to possibly make the opponent's life difficult at little risk to your side. I mean this extra noise may prevent them from missing a cold game! :unsure:

[akhare]

I vote for 2♦:

 

1) 2♣ in this sequence would show a good ♦ raise

 

2) XX would have promised tolerance for ♦s and side strength

 

3) A new suit at the 1 level / 1N would have shown strength

 

4) I might as well get this out of the way instead of guessing whether to come in at 3♦ or above

 

5) Having passed initially, LHO is free to jam the auction that this vul and a jump to 3M will leave the 1♦ bidder in the dark about the ♦ support and we could be cold for 5♦

 

6) 2♦ takes space and a cue bid away from them

 

In this context, 2♦ should be the weakest possible bid that advancer can make with ♦ support and this hand certainly qualifies IMO.

[jdonn]

2♦ seems obvious to me, why give them an entire extra level especially in an uncommon auction?

[CSGibson]

Which information do I give to the opps? That opener has short diamonds? They know it already.

Law of total tricks is based on both your degree of fit and your opponents. If I raise, I give the reopener information like that I'm not short in diamonds behind him, and a better idea of the total trumps that we have.

 

It's true that I'm also telling partner, and at a different vulnerability, I'd probably care about that, but at unfavorable I don't want partner to overcompete or try for game expecting, you know, a queen or something for my bid. I also want partner to be able to trust my raises in subsequent auctions at this color.

[CSGibson]

I vote for 2♦:

 

1) 2♣ in this sequence would show a good ♦ raise

 

2) XX would have promised tolerance for ♦s and side strength

 

3) A new suit at the 1 level / 1N would have shown strength

 

4) I might as well get this out of the way instead of guessing whether to come in at 3♦ or above

 

5) Having passed initially, LHO is free to jam the auction that this vul and a jump to 3M will leave the 1♦ bidder in the dark about the ♦ support and we could be cold for 5♦

 

6) 2♦ takes space and a cue bid away from them

 

In this context, 2♦ should be the weakest possible bid that advancer can make with ♦ support and this hand certainly qualifies IMO.

1 - true

2 - possibly, would have to be by agreement, but it's not an uncommon one, I suppose.

3 - it would show an equal strength to a 2♦ rebid, in fact.

4 - Don't worry about it. Partner didn't X in balancing seat, or jump to 2♦, so I'm going to act under the belief that this is not our hand

5 - see 4.

6 - how much are you really worried about this? The initial hand couldn't respond to 1♣, which most players do just about anything to respond to.

[straube]

Thanks for the responses. I'll share my opinion and what I just looked up from the Complete Book on Balancing by Mike Lawrence...

 

Partner Bids a Suit and Opener Passes

 

"The raise is one of your most likely actions and it will be most welcome to partner...When opener passes, your range is from a good 8 to a bad 12. The reason that the range is so large is that you have fewer techniques available when the other side opens...."

 

A cue bid, he goes on to say shows either a fit that is stronger than a single raise or a good hand with no fit and no stopper.

 

Partner Reopens with a Suit and Opener Rebids

 

"When opener passes, the range is defined as 8 to 11. But when opener intervenes it becomes incumbent on you to raise far more aggressively. This is because failure to raise runs the risk that you will be shut out of the auction."

 

He states that the upper range for the single raise remains the same (11 or bad 12) but the lower is dropped. He gives an example for the lower end...

 

After 1C P P 1S 2C

 

QT8 K32 QT95 432

 

"2S. You would pass if opener had passed also. It's very important to establish a fit. More values would be nice, but the fit is more important than the odd queen or two."

 

He cites example hands where opener rebids a new suit and a cue bid is still available. The cue remains what it meant before. Only the raise range widens.

 

This auction is different because opener reopens with a double and likely has a better hand. Still, I wonder how much Lawrence would shade his raise structure.

 

I think especially V vs NV and at imps, that pass is right. It's already problematic that a single raise is wide in range. Sure, the hand has compensating distribution, but not so much as to be tempted to bid 3D and this distribution is only useful for offense and not defense.

 

If 2D showed a very weak hand with some useful distribution then that would be the right bid here. It's just that the bid ought to be reserved for better hands. Hands with at least a few more points. Hands that are more frequently occurring and have better chances of competing...because if we have a fit, the opponents probably have one, too.

[gwnn]

ok thanks for this interesting hand and your interesting lesson.