exploration opposite 2NT opener

[lmilne]

[hv=d=s&v=e&s=s762hd863caqt9875]133|100|Scoring: MP[/hv]

 

Partner opens 2NT (20-22 bal). What would you bid playing a] your fav system with an expert partner b] playing puppet stayman, transfer (4C undiscussed) with an intermediate partner?

[helene_t]

With my favorite p I bid 3♠, transfer to clubs. If p signs off in 3NT I correct to 5♣, otherwise I bid 6♣.

 

With a random p I bid 5♣.

[Jlall]

With my favorite p I bid 3♠, transfer to clubs. If p signs off in 3NT I correct to 5♣, otherwise I bid 6♣.

 

With a random p I bid 5♣.

Playing 5C at MP seems like aiming at a very very small target.

 

I would love to get to bid 5N transfer to 6C or something lol. It is probably very important that partner declares.

 

In my current methods (which I don't like) I'd have to bid 3S forcing 3N then 4D showing clubs.

[whereagles]

If you lack the methods to investigate, just use the losing trick count. A 20-22 NT usually has 6 cover cards. You have 6 losers, you it's a simple

 

2NT 6♣

[Jlall]

I currently have no meaning assigned to 2N-5H. I think I'm gonna start playing it as a transfer to 6 of a minor (5S asks then 5N clubs, 6C diamonds), so that you aren't forced to investigate/help them totally with their lead, but you can always transfer and bid 6 of a minor.

 

Of course this helps them with lead directing Xs and stuff, but it's still better than having to bid 2N-6m and wrongside imo.

[mikeh]

I currently have no meaning assigned to 2N-5H. I think I'm gonna start playing it as a transfer to 6 of a minor (5S asks then 5N clubs, 6C diamonds), so that you aren't forced to investigate/help them totally with their lead, but you can always transfer and bid 6 of a minor.

 

Of course this helps them with lead directing Xs and stuff, but it's still better than having to bid 2N-6m and wrongside imo.

I like it....

 

but most experienced partnerships can show a one-suited slam hand using methods that get opener on play, so I am not sure how useful this is.

[Cascade]

If you lack the methods to investigate, just use the losing trick count. A 20-22 NT usually has 6 cover cards. You have 6 losers, you it's a simple

 

2NT 6♣

I am not 100% sure what you mean here.

 

If on average 2NT has six cover cards but we have a void then I think it is likely the number of cover cards diminishes.

[Jlall]

but most experienced partnerships can show a one-suited slam hand using methods that get opener on play, so I am not sure how useful this is.

Yeah the way I play it though usually you show your 1 suiter, and then partner might say he dislikes his hand or answer keycard or whatever, and maybe no one has bid the suit yet, then maybe you jump to 5N to get him to bid the suit, but by then you've given some info away about openers hand (how many keycards he has), and you've probably already made an artificial bid or two by now that could be doubled anyways.

 

For instance:

 

2N 3S

3N 4D

 

To me this shows a 1 suited slam try in clubs. Note I've made 2 artificial bids. Now opener can answer keycards in clubs, or reject clubs. So maybe he bids 4S or w/e. Now I bid 5N saying bid 6C and he does.

 

In this auction I made 2 artificial bids that can be doubled, and opener has said he likes clubs and how many keycards he has.

 

Obviously this is worse than

 

2N 6C

 

but now we've wrongsided.

 

So for me

 

2N 5H

5S 5N

6C

 

is much better, opener has said nothing about his hand, and I've only made 1 bid that could be doubled.

 

Maybe my methods over 2N just suck for this though.

[Cascade]

a/ 3♠ Transfer to clubs then 4♥ showing shortage. The subsequent auction will depend on whether or not there was a superaccept of 3♠ and what action partner took over 4♥ - 4NT, 5♣, 6♣, 7♣ and maybe 6NT/7NT are possible outcomes.

 

b/ Direct 6♣

[Fluffy]

in my methods this is a 3♠ bid wich means I am interested in the minors rather than the majors. If partner bids 3NT I can pass. If he doesn't he will normally bid 4♣ wich we raise to slam. If he bids 4♦ (unlikelly) I'd jsut blast 6♣ and let them guess the lead.

 

with your methods I'd gamble 3NT.

[chasetb]

a.) With my favorite partner, the auction would go:

2NT - 3♠ (relay to 3NT)

3NT - 4♣ (slam try, asking for 1st round control)

 

Since I have a void and a tenace, I should be the one playing the hand, NOT partner. If he cuebids 4♠, I am mildly happy, if 4♦ I am bidding 4♥, and if 4♥ then I bid 4NT as a closeout and warning partner.

 

b.) Probably 6♣.

[Jlall]

Since I have a void and a tenace, I should be the one playing the hand, NOT partner.

lol

[lowerline]

[hv=d=s&v=e&s=s762hd863caqt9875]133|100|Scoring: MP[/hv]

 

Partner opens 2NT (20-22 bal). What would you bid playing a] your fav system with an expert partner b] playing puppet stayman, transfer (4C undiscussed) with an intermediate partner?

I have no idea how to bid this intelligently. I just gamble 6♣.

 

Steven

[ONEferBRID]

Fred Hamilton's modification of the system described in the May 2006 ACBL Bulletin:

 

2NT - 3S! ( Puppet to 3NT)

3NT! - ?

 

4C = Long diamond slam try, 4D by opener is keycard ask.

4D = Long clubs slam try, 4H by opener is keycard ask.

4H = both minors, short in hearts

4S = both minors, short in spades

4NT = balanced slam invitational hand with 4-4 in the minors

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

4D to show Cl is an attempt to "rightside" the final contract.

[helene_t]

With my favorite p I bid 3♠, transfer to clubs. If p signs off in 3NT I correct to 5♣, otherwise I bid 6♣.

 

With a random p I bid 5♣.

Playing 5C at MP seems like aiming at a very very small target.

Yeah you are right. My thoughts were that if p has ♣xx he may not be able to reach my club in 3NT. But most of the time 3NT is better 5♣, at least at MP.

[Finch]

2NT - 3NT (transfer to clubs)

4C - 6C

[whereagles]

If on average 2NT has six cover cards but we have a void then I think it is likely the number of cover cards diminishes.

Well, I never saw any study on it, but it could be so.

[cherdanno]

If you lack the methods to investigate, just use the losing trick count. A 20-22 NT usually has 6 cover cards. You have 6 losers, you it's a simple

 

2NT 6♣

Good evaluation method! So you would do the same with xx xx xx AQxxxxx?

[lmilne]

Wow, everyone thinks that 6♣ is the best MP bid playing no system? Playing in a weakish field with no system, I bid 3NT as it looked like the biggest chance for a good plus, whereas 6♣ risks a minus that I really don't need with weak players having my cards around the room. 6♣ does make, but +720 (on a heart lead into the AQ) was a pretty hot score regardless.

 

Can anyone be bothered to do a sim to see how many tricks are likely with clubs as trumps opposite 20-22?

[lmilne]

2NT - 3NT (transfer to clubs)

4C - 6C

So the advantage of your system is transferring the contract? You're not interested in exploring controls or partner's club holding?

 

And I don't know what 6 cover cards means but that seems not to make a whole lot of sense. On the other hand, if you have in fact solved the problem of constructive bidding, let me know...

[Cascade]

Wow, everyone thinks that 6♣ is the best MP bid playing no system? Playing in a weakish field with no system, I bid 3NT as it looked like the biggest chance for a good plus, whereas 6♣ risks a minus that I really don't need with weak players having my cards around the room. 6♣ does make, but +720 (on a heart lead into the AQ) was a pretty hot score regardless.

 

Can anyone be bothered to do a sim to see how many tricks are likely with clubs as trumps opposite 20-22?

I got

 

65.4% chance of 12 or 13 double dummy tricks with the club hand as declarer

 

70.5% chance of 12 or 13 double dummy tricks with the strong hand as declarer

[qwery_hi]

I remember some top pairs playing 2NT - 4H single suited slam try in clubs, and 4S as single suited slam try in diamonds, but may be wrong.

[Cascade]

Wow, everyone thinks that 6♣ is the best MP bid playing no system?  Playing in a weakish field with no system, I bid 3NT as it looked like the biggest chance for a good plus, whereas 6♣ risks a minus that I really don't need with weak players having my cards around the room.  6♣ does make, but +720 (on a heart lead into the AQ) was a pretty hot score regardless.

 

Can anyone be bothered to do a sim to see how many tricks are likely with clubs as trumps opposite 20-22?

I got

 

65.4% chance of 12 or 13 double dummy tricks with the club hand as declarer

 

70.5% chance of 12 or 13 double dummy tricks with the strong hand as declarer

The numbers were slightly smaller when i included some slightly offshape hands (4441 with stiff honour and 5422s but not both majors).

 

64.0%

 

68.6%

[qwery_hi]

I remember some top pairs playing 2NT - 4H single suited slam try in clubs, and 4S as single suited slam try in diamonds, but may be wrong.

Well, a bit of googling turned up :

 

Lauria - Versace 2007 BB :

 

2NT - 4C = 6+ hearts slam try

4D = 6+ spades ..

4H, 4S ditto.

[gnasher]

I remember some top pairs playing 2NT - 4H single suited slam try in clubs, and 4S as single suited slam try in diamonds, but may be wrong.

Well, a bit of googling turned up :

 

Lauria - Versace 2007 BB :

 

2NT - 4C = 6+ hearts slam try

4D = 6+ spades ..

4H, 4S ditto.

I do that too, so I could bid 4♥ and then stop in 5♣ (or 4NT) if partner denied suitability. But I'd prefer to just play 6♣ by opener on an uninformative auction.

 

Looking at Cascade's figures, and adding in the significant chance that it makes on the wrong lead, that seems best.

Edited April 15, 2010 by gnasher