big passed hand as usual

[gwnn]

-

AKT9

Qxxx

Axxxx

 

p-p-p-1S

p-?

[jdonn]

That is 13 points we passed with, right? AK, A, Q? And a T9? And a void? :(

[Jlall]

1N which gib never passes, followed by 3N unless he bids 2H.

[gwnn]

oh cool didn't know that he never passes 1NT thanks.

 

well I guess I could have opened but I didn't think I'm clearly stronger, generally speaking, than a 1NT opener. dunno.

[Jlall]

oh cool didn't know that he never passes 1NT thanks.

Yeah it's perfect for when you pass good hands heh.

 

Passing seems normal esp if NV in a robot race, not sure what jdonn is talking about, pretty sure he passes then bids a forcing NT a lot with pretty good hands.

 

Disclaimer: I haven't played robot races in a few months so maybe ari has changed the code so that it sometimes passes 1N opp a PH, but I'm 100 % sure it never used to.

[cherdanno]

It just passed me in P 1S 1N.

[Jlall]

Ari :ph34r:

 

I always figured that would be fixed eventually but it sucks since it's so crucial for robot races heh.

[arigreen]

That's just part of the game. I'm unlikely to change GIB's bidding style to cater to the possibility of partner having passed an opening hand in a Robot Race.

[jdonn]

I still think you want to bid 1NT, he rarely passes. 3NT shows spade support right? So what other choice is there, 4♥ and pray? Is that even natural?

 

Besides we have 13 with a void in his suit and he will only pass on like 12 I assume, so maybe game wouldn't even make.

[bb79]

I am pretty sure that 2nt and 3nt by passed hand shows balanced hand.

3nt by unpassed hand would be balanced hand and 4 card spade support.

[gwnn]

isnt 3NT like 2-4S 2-5H 2-5C 2-5D choice of games? and gib often pulls it with random 5332's (as he did on this hand :-S)

[arigreen]

How about I add a rule to force GIB to pass 3NT unless it has extreme distribution or significant extra values?

[junyi_zhu]

How about I add a rule to force GIB to pass 3NT unless it has extreme distribution or significant extra values?

Agree, that's a very important rule. Also, I prefer you to add that bidding 3NT doesn't require any extra in a gf sequence. Now, even after 2/1 gf, bidding 3NT usually shows 13 HCP or more, which doesn't make sense to me at all.

[gwnn]

That would be a great rule, thanks Ari!

[arigreen]

How about I add a rule to force GIB to pass 3NT unless it has extreme distribution or significant extra values?

Agree, that's a very important rule. Also, I prefer you to add that bidding 3NT doesn't require any extra in a gf sequence. Now, even after 2/1 gf, bidding 3NT usually shows 13 HCP or more, which doesn't make sense to me at all.

I'm not quite sure what you are suggesting. Can you give me an example auction where you think I should change the meaning of 3NT? Thanks.

[junyi_zhu]

How about I add a rule to force GIB to pass 3NT unless it has extreme distribution or significant extra values?

Agree, that's a very important rule. Also, I prefer you to add that bidding 3NT doesn't require any extra in a gf sequence. Now, even after 2/1 gf, bidding 3NT usually shows 13 HCP or more, which doesn't make sense to me at all.

I'm not quite sure what you are suggesting. Can you give me an example auction where you think I should change the meaning of 3NT? Thanks.

For example, sequence like: 1S p 2H p 2S p 3D p 3N, this 3NT always requires 13 HCP or more in the explanation. But you sometimes have to bid 3NT with 11 or 12 HCP and misfitted hands. There are just too many of them. Another example: 1H 1S 3H 3S 3NT, this 3NT requires 19 HCP. However, 3S already forced to game, so you have to bid 3NT with some weaker hands. A third example: 1H 1S 2H 3C 3NT, this 3NT also require extra. Basically, gib thinks that they need more HCP to make 3NT than 4M. Also, this kind of logic may lead to some failure of bidding 3NT in competitive auctions. I have observed many times that gib wouldn't bid 3NT in a gf competitive sequence with opp's suit stopped just because gib thinks he has a minimum in his range.

There are also some extensions of this logic, For example, gib thinks that 1C 2C 2NT shows 14 HCP. However, with 12-13 HCP and 3 clubs, it's actually better to bid 2NT instead of 3C IMO. With 14 HCP, the game is actually very close. Also this kind of 14 HCP convention makes 2NT rebid very rare and is a huge waste of bidding space.

[arigreen]

Interesting. Thanks for the detailed analysis. I understand why GIB thinks that bidding 3N shows additional HCP in these auctions, and I don't think it will be trivial to fix, but it's definitely something I will work on.

[Bbradley62]

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AKT9

Qxxx

Axxxx

 

p-p-p-1S

p-?

Would a 2♣ response be treated as one round force, even by a passed hand?

[cherdanno]

How about I add a rule to force GIB to pass 3NT unless it has extreme distribution or significant extra values?

There are many auctions where partner has shown a major suit and my 3NT bid is defined as "5- spades, 5-hearts, xx+hcp". It would be much better to define it as 2- for any suit where partner has shown 5+, or 3- for any suit where partner has shown 4+. Then, if GIB's simulation still decides bidding 4M is percentage, then he may well be right.

[barmar]

I think I've seen it pass 2/1 responses by passed hand.

[gwnn]

QJxxx

x

AJxx

Axx

 

so was this substantial extras or just extreme distribution?

[pretender]

Yes Ari, if you can change that NT needing extras rule, I think that would be great and would probably help one of the problem auctions I listed earlier, that GIB is reluctant to bid 2NT or 3NT in overcall auctions.

 

I find that in general GIB will pattern out if it hasn't yet been able to describe its hand. So for

 

QJxxx

x

AJxx

Axx

 

it would most likely bid on over 1S-3NT (that's not rigorously defined) but after 1S-1N-2D-3N would pass having already bid its hand.

 

This happens a lot in auctions where you know you just want to be in 3NT, but playing with GIB, if 2NT is forcing on your auction, you have to bid it to let GIB finish patterning out.

[gwnn]

gib pulled my 3NT again on a 5134 13 count, I thought there was a new rule? It would be nice to know whether is one or not

[bid_em_up]

gib pulled my 3NT again on a 5134 13 count, I thought there was a new rule? It would be nice to know whether is one or not

The new "rule" likely has not been released yet (assuming it was actually implemented).

http://forums.bridgebase.com/index.php?showtopic=37720&hl=