MarceldB Posted July 23, 2004 Report Share Posted July 23, 2004 Hi (artificial) bidders, xxxxx--------- nonAxxx-----------xxxnon------------AKQJxxxxAKQx----------Jx West as well as East opens the bidding. Do you reach the grand in both options in a proper way?I would like to know -and please no affected/unreal sequences just for this hand - how you should bid these in your "standard"-system. I do not have a problem with this hand but the reason of this posting is that I want to learn from other/unknown to me solutions/methods. Thanks,Marcel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted July 23, 2004 Report Share Posted July 23, 2004 East opens:3NT 4D4S 4NT5H 6D 3NT gambling4D = ask lenght4S = 8 cards4NT = spade ask5H = spade void West opens:I don't have a clue! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chamaco Posted July 23, 2004 Report Share Posted July 23, 2004 Hi (artificial) bidders, xxxxx--------- nonAxxx-----------xxxnon------------AKQJxxxxAKQx----------Jx West as well as East opens the bidding. Do you reach the grand in both options in a proper way?I would like to know -and please no affected/unreal sequences just for this hand - how you should bid these in your "standard"-system. I do not have a problem with this hand but the reason of this posting is that I want to learn from other/unknown to me solutions/methods. Thanks,Marcel If west opens bidding becomes quite ugly in my system. I'd use a Preccision 2D or 2H opener (whatever you use for 3-suiter short in diamonds; I hate opening 1M with a totally empty 5 bager).But then east is likely to deevaluate his hand; what's more, it is cumbersome to find out where west's honors are located Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted July 23, 2004 Report Share Posted July 23, 2004 3N 4D - 4D asks for shortness, not length of course!4S 6D? I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted July 23, 2004 Report Share Posted July 23, 2004 If you use 4D as shortness ask, then, after 4S, you can bid 4NT to ask for lenght. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted July 23, 2004 Report Share Posted July 23, 2004 4N asks for an outside K if this is allowed, else you can play what you suggest, unless 4N happens to be a sign off - rare, but still QJxAKxxxxAKQxYou might want to play in 4N opp short H Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted July 23, 2004 Report Share Posted July 23, 2004 MOSCITO: if west opens the bidding:1♥ - 1♠ (4+♠, 9-15 HCP) - (relay, inv+)2♣ - 2♦ (5440 with 5♠ or 5+♠&4+♦) - (relay)2♥ - 2♠ (5440 with 5♠) - (relay)3♣ - ??? (5-4-0-4) After 3♣ you have to choose between RKC in any suit (followed by CAB's) or denial cuebids, but it get's you too high or the wrong information (2 keycards in ♥, is that the K or the A, or none?). From here on it's quite difficult, even to reach 6♦... if east opens:1♠ - 1NT (4+♦, 9-15 HCP, unbal) - (relay, 0+HCP)2♦ - 2♥ (singlesuited ♦) - (relay)2♠ - 2NT (shortage in ♠ OR 3-2-6-2 OR 2-3-6-2) - (relay)3NT - ??? (0-3-7-3) We can't show 8 card suits (unless perhaps with zooming, bidding 4♣). With a 0-3-7-3, grand slam is very far away, however if we would be able to show 8 card suits, after you hear a 0-3-8-2, west has a great hand. In this layout, based on slam points, we'll be in 6♦ cause we only miss 1 Ace or a King + a Queen. With my f2f partner: west opens: very hard to find it! we'll probably end up in 4♥ or so. east opens: 2♣ - 2♦ (weak 44+M or 8-9 tricks any or 21-22 bal) - (waiting bid)3♦ - 6♦ (8-9 tricks in ♦) - (4 tricks support)pass this isn't the ideal bidding ofcourse (tell it to my partner!!), but it's based pure on tricks. If opener has 2 small ♠s we're screwed... We don't open gambling with a void. Only solid 7+ card, no outside K/A, no void. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke warm Posted July 23, 2004 Report Share Posted July 23, 2004 with us - east:3nt : 4nt (11 trick slam try - opener bids 6m with 8 tricks else 5m)6d toughtest one is west:2d : 2nt - mini roman : game force3c : 6d - short diamonds : well of coursep - oh crap don't see how the grand can be reached at all, and if west opens i think you do well to reach slam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luis Posted July 23, 2004 Report Share Posted July 23, 2004 Viking Club: If East opens:1d - 1h3n - 4c5s - 7d 1h = natural or GF3n = Solid diamonds4c = shortage?5s = spade void If west opens I can't reach 7 :-) Luis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vang Posted July 23, 2004 Report Share Posted July 23, 2004 Viking Club: If East opens:1d - 1h3n - 4c5s - 7d 1h = natural or GF3n = Solid diamonds4c = shortage?5s = spade void uh, how did west counted 13 tricks here? i can see only 11 (7 solid diamonds plus 3 clubs plus heart ace). uh, how did west counted 13 tricks here? i can see only 11 (7 solid diamonds plus 3 clubs plus heart ace). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luis Posted July 23, 2004 Report Share Posted July 23, 2004 Viking Club: If East opens:1d - 1h3n - 4c5s - 7d 1h = natural or GF3n = Solid diamonds4c = shortage?5s = spade void uh, how did west counted 13 tricks here? i can see only 11 (7 solid diamonds plus 3 clubs plus heart ace). uh, how did west counted 13 tricks here? i can see only 11 (7 solid diamonds plus 3 clubs plus heart ace). True, probably 6d then from any position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted July 23, 2004 Report Share Posted July 23, 2004 Viking Club: If East opens:1d - 1h3n - 4c5s - 7d 1h = natural or GF3n = Solid diamonds4c = shortage?5s = spade void uh, how did west counted 13 tricks here? i can see only 11 (7 solid diamonds plus 3 clubs plus heart ace). uh, how did west counted 13 tricks here? i can see only 11 (7 solid diamonds plus 3 clubs plus heart ace). True, probably 6d then from any position. I play similar... say EAST opens 3NT... 3NT - 4NT 4NT ask for extra legnth (Keycard is useless), and 4♦ instead of 3NT ask for shortness... So..combine these... 3NT - 4D4S - 4NT5D - 5S6C - 7D 4D = shortness? 4S = singleton or void in Spade4N = legnth5D = 1 extra (8 card suit)5S = singleton or void6C = void7D 7D says Maybe partner has 0-1-8-4, maybe partenr has club J, maybe partner 0-2-8-3 and clubs 3-3, maybe partner can set up my long ♠ with four ruffs, or maybe there will be a ♠♣ squeeze. I don't know how to find the ♣J Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke warm Posted July 23, 2004 Report Share Posted July 23, 2004 i don't think i could get to 7 even going ben's route, tho some of the bids are the same: 3nt : 4d - gambling : asks for stiff5s : 6c - void : ace6d i just don't see how the grand is reached, unless east somehow counds 5 tricks in his hand.. then 3nt : 5nt - gambling : grand slam ask (if 8 tricks bid 7 else bid 6)7d Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted July 23, 2004 Report Share Posted July 23, 2004 Bidding isn't an exact science. The keycards here are extra lenght, spade void and the club jack. While the extra lenght and the void can be discovered, no system I know can find out about the CJ. Especially since it already takes 3 rounds of bidding to find out about the other two features. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antoine Fourrière Posted July 23, 2004 Report Share Posted July 23, 2004 If East opens, I proudly bash 5♦ and play there less proudly, but I'm sure it still is the right action. (Well, if I open 4N - does it show that type of hand? -, partner should try 6♦, but really, opening 5♦ usually hurts the opponents more than partner.) If West opens, I use transfer rebids (except in clubs)1♠ 2♦2♥ 3♣3♦ 5♦6♦ 3♣ : showing long diamonds (3♦ would be fourth suit)3♦ : nonforcing5♦ : to play, 4♦ would be nonforcing with a good seven-card suit6♦ : tricks Maybe 4♠ over 3♦ should be Exclusion Blackwood or simply void-showing, but it wouldn't work over 3N. Since that treatment is unavailable in clubs, a direct jump to 3♣ shows a game-forcing club one-suiter, with or without much slam interest, 2♣ followed by 3♣ is nonforcing and 2♣ followed by 3♦ is fourth suit, but not a one-suiter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cascade Posted July 24, 2004 Report Share Posted July 24, 2004 Bidding isn't an exact science. The keycards here are extra lenght, spade void and the club jack. While the extra lenght and the void can be discovered, no system I know can find out about the CJ. Especially since it already takes 3 rounds of bidding to find out about the other two features. This is exactly right. Missing a slam or grand that requires a working Jack opposite AKQx is no big deal. Of course it is nice if we bid some of these but we have to expect to miss more than we find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarceldB Posted July 24, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2004 Thanks for all your contributions, although - as I presumed but not hoped - non with a complete satisfied solution.This is indeed a very difficult hand. Even 6D could be a problem to bid as you have admitted. Well let's see then in a HUM: W---------- Exxxxx----- -Axxx------ xxx- ---------- AKQJxxxxAKQx----- Jx In case WEST opens the auction: •Pass =13+ »1S= singleton/void spades 6-11p. 4441 up to 7330 5/6-10p. 8+card and an 1-suiter •1NT=Relay »3C= 5/5 H/C or 8-card Diamonds and 3/2 or 3/1 in H/C v.v. in 9-card •3D=relay »4D= 32 or 23 in H/C and an 8-card Diamonds and 9-10 p. •4S= Slam asking Bid diamonds »5NT = 2 Aces/5 + Trump Queen + Trump Jack, no Jack of Hearts •6C= Jack of clubs? »6H = Yes (if no you can Pass 6D just in time!) •Bingo: 7 Diamonds »Pass------------------------------------------------------------------ In case East opens the bidding: - »1C= 8-12 any singleton/void and a 4441 up to 7330 OR 7-11 any singleton/void and a 8+ 1-suiter •1D=relay »1S= same etc., so symmetric completely One difference because of the pointrange (11p = maximum, so a side Queen can be involved) •4S= Slam asking Bid diamonds »5S= 2 Aces/5 + Trump Queen no side Queen H or C (so partner must have Jack of diamonds for the max 10-11points) •6C= Jack of Clubs? »6H= yes •7 Diamonds »Pass-------------- In case West does not give a relay (if you play originally: when a Major then relay=15/16+) - »1C=8-12 any singleton/void and a 4441 up to 7330 OR 7-11 any singleton/void and a 8+ 1-suiter •1S = natural or semi-natural (=3card), 0-14 points and forcing »3H= any solid 7 carder with AKQ any (semi)-solid 8+-carder with AK or better all options with NO side value (K or Q) •3S = Pass or correct (can be strong [12-14p.] too if you know partner does not pass! You take a slightly risk, but you gain more bidding space) »3NT= any void •4D= forcing relay, asking for the void (4C= Pass or correct) »4S= spade void •4NT= which solid one? »5S= 8 carder AKQJ (not necessary to give further side-Jack info, because there is just bidding space enough for partner to ask) •6C= JC? »6H=Yes •7 Diamonds »Pass I admitt highly artificial and I do not understand why my partners are running away ;-) Regards,Marcel For your info and for the sake of good order: no gadgets, all part of a nearly elaborated HUM-system.Not posted to boast with these sequences but to see if there are other/better possibilities or instruments which are worthwhile to practice, specially in a non-HUM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted July 24, 2004 Report Share Posted July 24, 2004 I think it's quite nice to start with strong pass, BUT, if you'd play against me you'll have to deal with intervention :D Lets see how you handle that :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.