Precision openers - question of style

[bluecalm]

For those who has some experience playing precision (5card majors, 2/1gf, RM simplified style)

 

Do you open the following hands in 1/2 seat: (all from recent bbo hands)

 

1) ♠KQ63 ♥J96 ♦KJ732 ♣2

2) ♠T9542 ♥A ♦AT9843 ♣9

3) ♠Q ♥Q862 ♦K98 ♣KJ962

4) ♠T ♥AKQT7 ♦J876 ♣875

5) ♠AK532 ♥K98 ♦T32 ♣62

 

If you open some of them only in specific seat/vulnerability please specify those.

If you have some comments about style when playing this kind of precision you are more than welcome to share :lol:

All those hands were opened by one of us but we are new to this system and to be honest opening some of those seems like (pardon the poker term) a spew.

 

One final question: do you modify your 2/1 style ? Are most 12hcp answered by 2/1 or 1NT ?

 

Thanks for help :P

[awm]

Obviously it's a matter of style/what partner expects/how light he will game force opposite.

 

My feeling is that tactically, you will do well to open hands 1 and 4. The first hand is likely to find a major suit fit, and the fourth hand has a very good suit and will play nicely in a number of contracts. The other hands feel like a pass to me; they have some rebid problems (hand 3 in particular is tough to bid after 1♦-1♠; I suppose you try 1NT but this is worse than a minimum) and not much to recommend them.

[nige1]

For those who has some experience playing precision (5card majors, 2/1gf, RM simplified style)

Do you open the following hands in 1/2 seat: (all from recent bbo hands)

1) ♠KQ63 ♥J96  ♦KJ732 ♣2

2) ♠T9542 ♥A ♦AT9843 ♣9

3) ♠Q ♥Q862 ♦K98 ♣KJ962

4) ♠T ♥AKQT7 ♦J876 ♣875

5) ♠AK532 ♥K98 ♦T32 ♣62

If you open some of them only in specific seat/vulnerability please specify those.

If you have some comments about style when playing this kind of precision you are more than welcome to share :lol:

All those hands were opened by one of us but we are new to this system and to be honest opening some of those seems like (pardon the poker term) a spew.

One final question: do you modify your 2/1 style ? Are most 12hcp answered by 2/1 or 1NT ?

Thanks for help :P

1. 
   Playing simplified CC Wei Precision,
   
2. ♠KQ63 ♥J96 ♦KJ732 ♣2: 1♦.
   
3. ♠T9542 ♥A ♦AT9843 ♣9: 1♦ not 1♠.
   
4. ♠Q ♥Q862 ♦K98 ♣KJ962: _P but 1♦ if minors reversed. 2♣ OK in 3rd seat.
   
5. ♠T ♥AKQT7 ♦J876 ♣875: 1♥ in seats 1-3.
   
6. ♠AK532 ♥K98 ♦T32 ♣62: 1♠ in seats 1, 3 & 4 but _P in seat 2.
   

IMO, an advantage of a system with limited opening bids is that you may open more hands. I reply INT on poor 12 counts.

[rbforster]

I agree with Nigel. Hand 3 looks bad, especially since I'd be opening 2♣ (or nothing). I'm otherwise happy to open my longest suit with ~10 points and/or good shape.

[effervesce]

1) 1♦

2) If I have 2♦ available as 6+D '10-15' I'd open that. Otherwise 1♠ in 1st seat, 2♦ weak in 3rd seat or if weak 2♦ unavailable 3♦ NV 3rd seat.

3) Pass

4) 1♥

5) 1♠ only in 1st and 3rd seats.

[fred]

Although I haven't played that much Precision, when I have it has been with first class partners with a lot of Precision-experience. Also, some of my regular teammates and frequent opponents in recent years have been among the strongest Precision pairs in the world and we like to talk about hands.

 

From this I can tell you with complete confidence that, if you learn one thing from this thread, learn this:

 

Vulnerability is massively important.

 

If the people who are giving you advice don't understand this then they don't understand what Precision is all about - find other people to give you advice.

 

For example, you can (and probably should) open pretty much anything you want in 3rd seat when you are not vul and you are playing Precision. The same is not even close to being true when you are vul.

 

Adam is right that style plays a role. According to my interpretation of the style that most of the leading USA Precision players use, hands 1, 3, and 5 are borderline openers when not vul in 1st and 2nd and non-openers when vul in 1st and 2nd. Hand 3 is especially dangerous playing the RM-inspired style that my friends use (because you have to open 1D and rebid 2C). Just like in a natural system, it makes sense not to open a borderline hand in Precision if your rebid will be uncomfortable.

 

Hand 2 is "strong enough" to open (1D - not 1S), but my judgment suggests that you would be better off Passing (on the theory that you are more likely to be able to describe your hand that way).

 

IMO it is reasonable to open 1H with hand 4 at any vul in 1st, 2nd or 3rd seat. 2H is also fine as far as I am concerned in several of these vul/seat combinations, but probably that is a offbeat view (ie ignore it - you have more important things to be thinking about).

 

Fred Gitelman

Bridge Base Inc.

www.bridgebase.com

[nige1]

Although I haven't played that much Precision, when I have it has been with first class partners with a lot of Precision-experience. Also, some of my regular teammates and frequent opponents in recent years have been among the strongest Precision pairs in the world and we like to talk about hands.

From this I can tell you with complete confidence that, if you learn one thing from this thread, learn this:

Vulnerability is massively important.

If the people who are giving you advice don't understand this then they don't understand what Precision is all about - find other people to give you advice.

:) Duh :( I'm here to learn too :) So thank you Fred :)

For example, you can (and probably should) open pretty much anything you want in 3rd seat when you are not vul and you are playing Precision. The same is not even close to being true when you are vul.

Adam is right that style plays a role. According to my interpretation of the style that most of the leading USA Precision players use, hands 1, 3, and 5 are borderline openers when not vul in 1st and 2nd and non-openers when vul in 1st and 2nd. Hand 3 is especially dangerous playing the RM-inspired style that my friends use (because you have open 1D and rebid 2C). Just like in a natural system, it makes sense not to open a borderline hand in Precision if your rebid will be uncomfortable.

Hand 2 is "strong enough" to open, but my judgment suggests that you would be better off Passing (on the theory that you are more likely to be able to describe your hand that way). IMO it is reasonable to open 1H with hand 4 at any vul in 1st, 2nd or 3rd seat. 2H is also fine as far as I am concerned in several of these vul/seat combinations, but probably that is a offbeat view (ie ignore it - you have more important things to be thinking about).

Is this a summary of Fred's view? All borderline:

1. ♠KQ63 ♥J96 ♦KJ732 ♣2: 1♦ vul seat 3; not vul seats 1-3.
   
2. ♠T9542 ♥A ♦AT9843 ♣9: _P vul or not vul.
   
3. ♠Q ♥Q862 ♦K98 ♣KJ962: _P vul or not vul.
   
4. ♠T ♥AKQT7 ♦J876 ♣875: 1♥ (sometimes 2♥) vul or not vul in seats 1-3.
   
5. ♠AK532 ♥K98 ♦T32 ♣62: 1♠ vul in seat 3; not vul in seats 1-3.
   

[jjbrr]

I read this last night and chose to think about my answers some more before I responded, because I was going to say something noncommital like "I don't feel strongly about opening or passing anything of them except hand 2 I'd always open."

 

However I think Fred's hit the nail on the head, as usual, that vulnerability and position, and even to some extent opponents and other factors, are what would sway me to open or pass. In 3rd seat white I would definitely open all of them. In first seat red I could see myself passing all of them. I think I'd rarely open hand 3 except white in 3rd.

[Apollo81]

FWIW, I would not open any of these in 1st or 2nd chair. They are all very close; for instance I would open 2 if it was two aces in the long suits and two small singletons, and I would open 3 non-vul if you switched spades and any other suit.

[gwnn]

I like opening all of them except hand number 3. It depends on the vulnerability, opps etc and also on the exact version of strong ♣. For example hand 2 is better to be opened if we can start by showing 4+ diamonds and then bidding lots of spades.

[Jlall]

3 is the worst imo if you are playing RM lite because 1435 is by far the worst shape possible. I also hate stiff Qs etc and wouldn't feel terrible calling it the worst hand of the 5 anyways.

 

I guess I'm weird because I like 5 as much (or more?) as 4, I guess I just feel more comfortable having so much defense/honor tricks, and I also like opening with spades. I would open both 5 and 4 at any vul.

 

I would open 1 NV only.

[Jlall]

And FWIW I think I open lighter than almost all of the group of US pros who play RM light except maybe hampson.

[dake50]

1) not style but system. RM weakness, 1S opener.

2) 1S. Shape and 5xS. Pay when no fit.

3) not style but system. RM loses H-fit jump here.

4) 2H, even 3H with S-single.

5) If this isn't reopening, what IS left to reopen?

[Mbodell]

I play precision with 5 card majors, but I only sometimes play 2/1 gf, and am not sure if I play "RM simplified style", but don't think so. I usually have a strong nt shape in with my 1♦ opener which overloads 1♦ but in a way that I quite like and am comfortable with, so that may influence my calls.

 

For me I could open all of these but 2 and 3 are the ones I might consider not opening depending on seat, vulnerability, opponents, and "state of match/session".

 

Hand 1 is an easy 1♦ for me as we have 10 points, 7 losers, 25 ZAR, and easy rebids.

 

Hand 2 is a little tricky as we are light on HCP and it is all about the shape. And we have the boss suit so it might be easier to show this shape later with a two suited overcall if opponents bid, and through constructive bidding if partner bids. But I don't think I'd often resist coming in with a 6-5 hand like this.

 

Hand 3 is a problem hand because my 2♣ promises 6 and the 1♦ bid planning to bid 2♣ over 1♠ is going to lead to ugly things and I can't rebid 1nt over 1♠ as that shows strong nt in my system. So for me this would be a seat and vulnerability issue. I'd open if conditions were favorable and pass otherwise. I might even be tempted to open 1nt if in 3rd white (playing 12-14) or other seats when favorable playing 10-12 nt range.

 

Hand 4 is a clear opener for me as I have the 2♦ rebid available and the 1♥ bid shows where I live and what leads I want.

 

Hand 5 is an opener for me too, although I think I'm happier when playing 10-12 nt and opening this nt than spades. I'd be happier opening 1♠ if you play semi-forcing 1nt and can pass a 1nt response with this balanced minimum.

 

So, for me, in terms of desirability I think I'd say 4 > 5 > 1 > 2 > 3. And for me 3 is the only one that would get passed a reasonable percent of the time.

[Jlall]

I'd be happier opening 1♠ if you play semi-forcing 1nt and can pass a 1nt response with this balanced minimum.

Ya totally, SF NT is the nuts when you can open your 10-11 and then pass 1N. This is part of OPs system FWIW.

[bluecalm]

Good to hear those are not automatic openers for all of you, I thought the world went nuts.

After some more hands playing the system I am more comfortable opening some 10 counts. It's amazing how often those 23hcp 3nt's have some play :)

 

Thanks all for answers !

[PrecisionL]

I would only open hands 4 & 5, even if playing 4-cd Majors.