Dirty

[hanp]

10x

Qx

KQ10xx

AKJx

 

All red, matchpoints. What do you open?

[helene_t]

Generally 1NT but all red at MP is a good setting for opening 1♦ and passing partner's 2♦ preference bid. So I'll take the advice in my signature for a change.

[effervesce]

1NT. Let's shut the opps majors out! 1♦ at IMPs though.

[rogerclee]

1NT. Let's shut the opps majors out! 1♦ at IMPs though.

If I were going to open 1N at one form of scoring and 1D at the other, I would definitely go the other way.

[gnasher]

2 points in the doubletons, chunky suits, no rebid problem. Has it really come to this?

 

One of the dangers of opening 1NT is that it may go

  1NT 2♠ pass pass

at which point we'll bid 2NT for the minors, presumably. With 3-3 in the minors, partner will prefer 3♣, because we're more likely to be 4-5 than 5-4. And we'll be in the wrong spot.

[Codo]

I show my twosuiter too...

 

With xx, Qx in the majors 1 NT is gambling.

[hanp]

I had this hand in a robot duplicate so of course I opened 1NT. GIB and GIB first didn't bid and missed their 4H and 4S games, then they misdefended and let me out for -100.

 

I felt a bit dirty though.

[jjbrr]

confirmed dirty

[jdonn]

1NT, and I would not balanced if it went 2♠ P P back to me r/r at mps. Even if I were to balance on that auction, the auction going that way and partner potentially choosing the wrong minor is a really obscure disadvantage to mention about the 1NT opening.

[Apollo81]

In a real game, I would only open 1NT if non-vul and playing MPs or BAM. Otherwise I'd open 1♦.

[aguahombre]

1NT at all scoring and vuls. And not to reopen. MY 1NT opening was both constructive and obstructive -- to all 3 other players; now I let it go.

 

The dangers of giving the opps another chance to bid their game, or several other bad things that could happen if we declare --are not obscure.

[gnasher]

1NT, and I would not balanced if it went 2♠ P P back to me r/r at mps. Even if I were to balance on that auction, the auction going that way and partner potentially choosing the wrong minor is a really obscure disadvantage to mention about the 1NT opening.

What would be the point in going through the disadvantages that we all already knew about?

 

If you're not going to balance after 2♠-pass-pass, I think that makes a 1NT opening a lot worse. With suits as good as these, you're probably undercompeting whenver partner has either three diamonds or four clubs.

[jdonn]

If you're not going to balance after 2♠-pass-pass, I think that makes a 1NT opening a lot worse.  With suits as good as these, you're probably undercompeting whenver partner has either three diamonds or four clubs.

I don't agree with that when partner is weak, especially as they are well positioned to double us when the suit we end in isn't breaking.

 

Also part of the point of 1NT is the preemptive aspect. Maybe LHO is 6-3 in the majors and RHO is 1-6. Maybe they missed game since their methods over a strong notrump are geared for competition. Maybe neither they nor we have a fit at all anyway. There are lots of ways passing it out can be right, aside from the dangers inherent in bidding again (and I didn't say your point was wrong or not worth mentioning, just that it was obscure.)

[jonottawa]

This ain't dirty, I had a much tougher problem in the final event in Reno:

 

AKx KJxx Q KT85x

 

What do you open?

 

Edit: Then what do you bid over a 1♠ response?

[jjbrr]

This ain't dirty, I had a much tougher problem in the final event in Reno:

 

AKx KJxx Q KT85x

 

What do you open?

1♣ alternatively prec 2♦

[whereagles]

1♦ for me. I'm ok with 1NT, but I prefer this opening because of the lack of support for pard's hypothetical 5 card major.

[mikeh]

1♦.

 

I think that 1N is sick, altho it may work for a variety of reasons. One of my former partners, a regular BW MSC panelist (not sure if he still is) and far more successful player than I am might argue that 1N shows a lack of respect for the game.

 

There are many reasons why 1N is bad, including:

 

partner will misevaluate his defence if the opps compete (and may make the wrong lead)

 

partner will misevaluate a major 2-suiter, expecting some support...by way of high cards if not length...for at least one suit

 

We may be unable to compete successfully for a minor partscore

 

We may reach 3N down when 5minor is cold

 

We may miss a good minor suit slam....he will rarely look for or be able to find diamonds with, say, Axx or even Axxx to say nothing of the club suit

 

Of course, 1N has advantages too, especially in the partscore and preemptive realm but when I hold 15 as dealer, my thoughts are not usually aimed at winning a partscore battle or preempting the opps.

[rogerclee]

a regular BW MSC panelist (not sure if he still is) and far more successful player than I am might argue that 1N shows a lack of respect for the game.

Someone who is so sure he is right about a bidding problem that he dismisses the second alternative as "showing a lack of respect for the game" is disrespecting the game himself.

[mikeh]

a regular BW MSC panelist (not sure if he still is) and far more successful player than I am might argue that 1N shows a lack of respect for the game.

Someone who is so sure he is right about a bidding problem that he dismisses the second alternative as "showing a lack of respect for the game" is disrespecting the game himself.

It's an argument, and that's all it is...a statement intended to provoke thought and consideration. It's not a conclusion or an assertion of fact....oh well...I sound too much like a lawyer, I suppose. But your post reveals the limitations of a forum...if you and I were discussing this over a beer, there would be much more give and take, and the nuances of tone of voice and body language would enable us to far better understand the point that we are each trying to make. BTW, a reference to the limitations of the forum is NOT a knock on you or anyone else...just that written words on a screen convey limited information about what the author was trying to say.

[aguahombre]

Yes, I have always thought that what is said --back and forth -- in PTP debate is much more cogent and precise than something I can write, then erase, then edit and finally send. but since I suck at both forms of communcation, the distinction is small. And whether at home or at the bar, there is usually drinking involved, so that part is moot, as well.

[jdonn]

I don't even know what saying a bid shows a lack of respect for the game means in this context. The closest type of statement I ever use is that I sometimes think when someone intentionally takes a certain very high variance action (such as grossly overpreempting) it shows a lack of confidence in their own abilities. But I still don't think the game minds. :)

[the hog]

1NT at all scoring and vuls. And not to reopen. MY 1NT opening was both constructive and obstructive -- to all 3 other players; now I let it go.

 

The dangers of giving the opps another chance to bid their game, or several other bad things that could happen if we declare --are not obscure.

Yes, agree.

[jukmoi]

2 points in the doubletons, chunky suits, no rebid problem. Has it really come to this?

 

One of the dangers of opening 1NT is that it may go

  1NT 2♠ pass pass

at which point we'll bid 2NT for the minors, presumably. With 3-3 in the minors, partner will prefer 3♣, because we're more likely to be 4-5 than 5-4. And we'll be in the wrong spot.

I agree with this.

[the hog]

"at which point we'll bid 2NT for the minors"

 

You might. I won't!

[gnasher]

I'm curious. If you'd open 1NT and then pass out a 2♠ overcall, what would you do with this hand in the same situation:

 

10x

Qxx

KQ10x

AKJx

 

or, making it a maximum

 

10x

KJx

KQ10x

AKJx