Optimist

[jillybean]

Dealer: North Vul: All Scoring: IMP ♠ A943 ♥ AK43 ♦ 6 ♣ A953

 

West North East South

 

 -     1♣    Pass  1♥

 Pass  2♣    Pass  

 

How can I hint that we could have slam here?

[the hog]

Could have a slam? I would say you definitely have 6 and I would be looking for 7.

I first suggested a 4D splinter, however your partner will almost certainly sign off. I think 4C is a better bid. Over 4D you can now cue 4H and proceed from there.

[hotShot]

How many wasted ♦ values are in partners weak hand?

You can splinter 4♦, but if partner signs off you end in 5♣ when you could have overtricks in 3NT and 6♣ may still be possible.

If 2♠ is (game-) forcing and partner does not bid NT, he won't have a ♦ stopper, which means that he does not have many wasted ♦ values. If 2♠ is GF, partner should take from your 4♣ later that you are short in ♦.

[jukmoi]

Agree that we are good enough to drive to a slam. If partner holds ♠Qxx ♥Qx ♦KQ ♣Qxxxxx we are going down but assuming a hand like that is really pessimistic.

 

I like splinter 4♦. Over parners sign-off we can bid 6♣. If partner can cuebid, then RKBW. If we have all the keycards then 5NT. Hopefully partner will bid seven if he has decent minimum with no wasted values in ♦.

[paulg]

Rather than answer the question, I'll pose a couple.

 

Would 2♦ be forcing by responder on this sequence? If so, what is 3♦?

 

(As you can see that 3♦-3NT-4♣ would be a nice way to bid this hand)

[Cyberyeti]

Thi is an awkward hand for standard methods, wasted diamond values are only bad if the diamond holding is short.

 

xx, x, KJxx, KQJxxx is perfectly playable for a slam.

 

In B/I you have to bid 4C or 4D.

 

This is another hand where 2D (third suit forcing) works well. We play over one of a minor/suit response/2 of same minor rebid that the next suit up is an artificial force with game invitational or better values, and this solves a lot of problems without really creating many others.

[wank]

obvious to splinter but not sure why everyone's splintering with 4d. on this side of the atlantic 2d would be natural and forcing and 3D would be a splinter.

[ONEferBRID]

obvious to splinter but not sure why everyone's splintering with 4d.  on this side of the atlantic 2d would be natural and forcing and 3D would be a splinter.

I agree that 3D should be a splinter but for a different forcing reason:

I use "cheapest new suit forcing and maybe artificial" ( 2D! here ) over Opener's rebid of 2 of his minor. Thus, 3D! = a jump over a forcing bid is a classic splinter definition .

Hopefully, you can use 4C next as Minorwood in a GF auction.

 

Actually, you are ready to go RKC immediately and I would hope a 4C-jump over the 2C rebid is Minorwood in your arsenal.

[mcphee]

2C is for the majority of the players a 6 card suit, although it could be a problematic rebid issue for partner if 2-2-4-5 and no S value. 3D is a splinter, so I am not sure why I see this talk of 4D. If partner can cue bid the KS now I would launch into whatever key card methods we have in search of the grand. It is difficult for me to imagine a first seat opening bid of 1C on some trashy 11 count just because they have 6. If after 3D partner finds a 3N bid I will advance to 4C and see if they can show the A of D. If none of these good things happen I am going to hang him anyhow and bid 6C. If it goes down I can always ask why they opened.

[jillybean]

What is 4♣ in this sequence 1♣:1♥ 2♣:4♣?

 

I agree with bidders who use 4♦ as splinter and would play;

 

1♣:1♥ 2♣:2♦ nf <-- this is wrong, its forcing

1♣:1♥ 2♣:3♦ 65 or splinter?

1♣:1♥ 2♣:4♦ splinter

[vuroth]

Hopefully it's just geography, but I would treat 2♦ as NF

[jukmoi]

What is 4♣ in this sequence 1♣:1♥ 2♣:4♣?

Sets clubs as trumps and starts cuebidding.

[jjbrr]

Start considering playing 2♦ as forcing, for sure, imo. It makes all these game and slam auctions easier, and it's better when you have both majors or 3 suits or whatever because you gain a tempo in the auction.

 

When partner has 6♣, it's very often right with NF ♥ and ♦ to just pass and allow partner's 6 card suit to be trumps. If you're void, you can try to pull to 2♥. otherwise pass will very often be fine.

[Codo]

What is 4♣ in this sequence 1♣:1♥ 2♣:4♣?

Sets clubs as trumps and starts cuebidding.

this... and I would bid this with your hand.

 

Yes 2 ♦ would be forcing too, but are you sure that you and your partner agree that

1♣ 1♥

2♣ 2♦

3♥ 4♣ sets clubs and is no cuebid?

 

So I would simple raise too.

[jjbrr]

What is 4♣ in this sequence 1♣:1♥ 2♣:4♣?

Sets clubs as trumps and starts cuebidding.

this... and I would bid this with your hand.

 

Yes 2 ♦ would be forcing too, but are you sure that you and your partner agree that

1♣ 1♥

2♣ 2♦

3♥ 4♣ sets clubs and is no cuebid?

 

So I would simple raise too.

Codo, a jump to 3♥ in this auction should be a very specific hand type, though I won't offer an opinion of what it should be since I'm not totally sure. I suspect it's a hand that improves a lot with a ♥ fit. However, it isnt bid too often since 2♥ would show 3-card support anyway and conserves space and allows partner to define what sort of hand type they have for the 2♦ bid.

 

In the auction you provided, I would take 4♣ as natural.

[jillybean]

Thanks, I like 2♦ forcing and it fits with the 1m:1♠ 2m:2♥ auction I posted earlier.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

Without special agreement - 4D, a splinter.

 

If 2D is natural, than 3D is already a splinter.

 

The alternative to 4D would be 4C.

 

Lots of player play 2D in this seq. as artificial, you may remember

the thread, where it was suggested to play a 2H rebid by responder

as artificial, it is the same situation, if you bid clubs later, that would be

forcing.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[Winstonm]

The Hog: Could have a slam? I would say you definitely have 6 and I would be looking for 7

 

xxx, xx, AK, KQJxxx

Remind me to not open this hand playing with you. :D

[goobers]

obvious to splinter but not sure why everyone's splintering with 4d. on this side of the atlantic 2d would be natural and forcing and 3D would be a splinter.

Not sure which side of the Atlantic you're on, but this side of the Atlantic I would expect 3D to be a splinter as well.

[the hog]

The Hog: Could have a slam? I would say you definitely have 6 and I would be looking for 7

 

xxx, xx, AK, KQJxxx

Remind me to not open this hand playing with you. :)

Please do. Or at least let me open 1C. I will back myself to make 6.

[Stephen Tu]

obvious to splinter but not sure why everyone's splintering with 4d.  on this side of the atlantic 2d would be natural and forcing and 3D would be a splinter.

Because even if 2♦ is natural and forcing, one might want to have 3♦ available to show 5-5 reds and GF, or alternately 5-5 inv. Otherwise you may have a problem with one range or the other on the third round of the auction.

 

One could argue that a lower level splinter has more utility than being able to show a 5-5 red invite, but for better or worse, BWS treats 3d as GF nat, with 2d ... 3d as inv.

[Fluffy]

when I play with bad aprtners they always bid 5m over my 4m or splinter, when all I Was willing to do is bid 4NT with the right fit B).

 

Beginners and intermediates please: refrain from bidding 5m over 4x.

[Codo]

Yes 2 ♦ would be forcing too, but are you sure that you and your partner agree that

1♣ 1♥

2♣ 2♦

3♥ 4♣ sets clubs and is no cuebid?

 

So I would simple raise too.

Codo, a jump to 3♥ in this auction should be a very specific hand type, though I won't offer an opinion of what it should be since I'm not totally sure. I suspect it's a hand that improves a lot with a ♥ fit. However, it isnt bid too often since 2♥ would show 3-card support anyway and conserves space and allows partner to define what sort of hand type they have for the 2♦ bid.

 

In the auction you provided, I would take 4♣ as natural.

This is B/I so I had thought that the difference between 2 ♥ and 3 ♥ is that the one bid shows min. with 3 card support and the other maximum (around 15 HCPs) with 3 card support.

 

Of course you conserve space while bidding 2♥ with both hands, but you do so by given less informations and as usual it is not clear what is more benefitical in the later bidding/play.

[ggwhiz]

I lean towards a 2s bid ( game forcing) followed by clubs, maybe even 3 clubs if pard bids 2nt.

 

Pard should show or deny the Ace of diamonds right away and my slam interest and diamond shortness MAY be out of the way a level earlier leaving pard with 2nd round control bids later on.

 

Granted, I would usually have 1 more heart and 1 less club to bid this way but a diamond splinter when you know pard can't q a major is a waste of time and space.