Find the grand

[masse24]

:) [hv=d=w&v=b&n=sjt753ht7dqjt82c3&w=sq62ha2da97ckqj62&e=shkqj984dk5cat987&s=sak984h653d643c54]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

Four friends sitting at this table and we had a lively discussion after the hand about how to bid the grand.

 

My thoughts:

 

1NT (pass) 2♦* (pass)

2♥ (pass) 3♣# (pass)

5♣^ (pass) 5♠! (pass)

6♣% (pass) 7♥ all pass

Correcting to ♥'s after finding the missing A of hearts, diamonds and K of Clubs.

 

 

* = Heart transfer

# = Showing a good 5 card suit

^ = Love the clubs! (Not sure about this bid. Suggestions?

! = Exclusion Blackwood for ♣

% = 0 or 3 Keys

 

Is there a way to find the missing ♣Q?

Does the jump to 5♣ imply posession of it?

Do you use Exclusion for (what started) as a minor suit slam?

 

Thanks for your input! :)

[kenrexford]

If East is willing to commit to playing in hearts:

 

1NT-P-4♦(Texas)-P-

4♥-P-4♠(Exclusion)-P-

5♥(two, no Queen)-P-5♠(kings?)-P-

7♥(trick source)

 

I mean, that one works out simply because of what Opener actually has in the five-card trick source in clubs.

 

If East starts as you suggested, using my methods:

 

1NT-P-2♦-P-

2♥-P-3♣-P-

3♦(artificial cue, says nothing except likes clubs)-P-3♥(sixth heart)-P-

4♣(two of the top three clubs, no spade control)-P-5♣(special RKCB)-P-

 

...5♣ cannot be to play once a known heart fit has been established. It cannot be exclusion, because the suit was bid. Therefore, I play this as RKCB, answering as if this suit was trumps...

 

5♦(0 or 3)-P-5♠(club Queen?)-P-

7♣-P-(maybe 7♥)-all pass

 

Note that exclusion is unnecessary if partner already denies a control in that suit. Cuebids often make exclusion unnecessary.

 

Note also that Responder need not worry about 0/3, because Opener would hardly cooperate with the diamond call (3♦) if his answer is 0.

 

If your 3♥ call would not be showing a sixth heart, who cares? The auction would be the same, and Responder is looking at his sixth heart. However, then he'd simply opt for the RKCB that agrees clubs, planning to convert to 7♥ if he so chooses.

[Cascade]

We would bid as follows:

 

1NT 2♦

2♥ 3♠ void

4♠ 5♥ Kickback 2 with queen

5♠ 6♦ Kings? ♦ K

7♥

 

or (in a weak NT environment)

 

1♣ 2♥ Fit jump

2NT 4♠ Strong NT; exclusion

4NT 5♦ 0 or 3; ♣Q?

5♠ 7♥ Yes

[aguahombre]

1NT-2H

2H-3C

3D-4S (3D really likes clubs, and cue) 4S exclusion

4NT-5D (4NT 0314) 5D queen ask for clubs + grand try

7C-7H

[ggwhiz]

There are probably a dozen ways (if inspired) to get there and without exclusion bw.

 

How about

 

1nt - 4d

4h - 5c (cue)

5d - 5nt, 5s, whatever, anything positive and forcing to 6

 

7h

[mohitz]

1NT-2H

2H-3C

3D-4S (3D really likes clubs, and cue) 4S exclusion

4NT-5D (4NT 0314) 5D queen ask for clubs + grand try

7C-7H

This would be my auction as well

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

My comments to your auction

 

#1 limiting 3C to 5-5 hands is too restrictive, a fairly common

agreement is, that 3C showes a gameforcing hand with 5-4.

If only gameforcing, than there is a shortage somewhere.

 

#2 4C instead of 5C, since 3C is already gameforcing 4C is stronger

than 5C.

Alternative opener can bid 3D, which would agree clubs, and show

a diamond control.

 

If you want to go artificial, than you can play, that 3H after 3C

in this seq. agrees clubs, and a new suit by opener agrees hearts

showing a control.

Wanting to agree the known major suit is more frequent than agreeing

responders 2nd suit, and this treatment keeps the bidding lower.

 

After 4C - Having shown a 2-suiter, responders first cue in a new suit

can be played as shortage showing, hence 4S - instead of 4D.

4S could of course be a single.

Over 4S opener will most likely bid 4NT, and now you can find the grand,

if your answers to 4NT include void shoing bids.

 

I did not fully answer you question, but maybe the above comments are

helpful anyway.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[Free]

Nobody playing transfer extensions?

[Cyberyeti]

I play a weak no trump, so would bid:

 

1C-2H (fit jump or rock crusher with hearts)

2N-3D (hearts and clubs, diamond control)

3H-4N (heart control, not shortage - exclusion in spades, clubs agreed, 4S would be normal RKCB in hearts, 4D normal RKCB in clubs)

5C-5D (0 or 3-QC ?)

6C-7? (yes but no extras, 5N would deny)

 

Could bid 7C or 7H now, at IMPs probably 7C as singleton AH is possible.

 

Playing a strong NT maybe.

 

1N-2D

2H-3C

4C-4S (4D would be RKCB, 4H a suggestion to play, first or second round spade cue)

4N-5D (both diamond cues)

5H-5N (H cue-GSF)

7C-P or 7H

[hanp]

In the original auction 5C was a grave mistake. Opener should never bid 5C in this auction.

[jjbrr]

In the original auction 5C was a grave mistake. Opener should never bid 5C in this auction.

Ya. This. 4♣ is how opener says he really likes ♣.

[ONEferBRID]

[jjbrr]

3♣ shows 5-5 always? That doesn't seem best to me.

[ONEferBRID]

3♣ shows 5-5 always? That doesn't seem best to me.

"ostensibly" ... new suit could be a good 4 carder ... ( this is standard after an intial major suit transfer )... the other standard option is the "new suit jump" showing shortness and a 6+ card major ( mentioned by others here -- 3S-jump for example ).

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Sidebar for Ken : Meckstroth uses 4S as RKC for Hts and 4NT! as Exclusion ( Sp Ace excluded ) .

[aguahombre]

At the time the 3C bid is used, Opener need only assume that the auction is game forcing and that responder has 5+M and 4+C --and for whatever reason wants to go slow. Could be probe for right strain, could be slamming, could be worried about NT with a shortness somewhere.

 

So, 5m or 4 "good"m doesn't really matter at this point. Opener supports the Major, bids 3NT, or cue supports clubs. Responder's next call will clarify what is happening.

[mikeh]

Despite everyone suggesting how easily they'd reach the grand, I don't think it is easy at all. Obviously specialized methods work (Ken, I can show you a form of relay stayman after strong notrumps that makes slam bidding far, far more effective than your methods), but in what passes for standard, this is tougher than it looks.

 

Responder has to bring clubs into the picture, but may want to play in hearts (imagine opener Axxx Kx in the round suits).

 

So we have to start with a transfer, and texas is inappropriate because it devours too much space...and for the poster who suggested texas then a cue bid of 5♣....many if not most would play 5♣ as exclusion.

 

1N 2♦

2♥ 3♣

 

so far so good.

 

Now, to the poster who suggested that 3♦ by opener was a cuebid in support of clubs, I ask what you suggest opener bid with Jxx Ax AQJxx Kxx?

 

I suspect that unless one knew what East's hand looked like, everyone and their dog would bid 3♦. Why couldn't east be KQx KQxxx x Axxx or so?

 

For me, opener has such a spectacular hand in clubs that if responder is prepared to show the suit, rather than bid a choice of games 3N, we are happy to show our support by going beyond 3N: we raise to 4♣.

 

Now the spotlight turns to East. East can assume that he hit a home run in clubs, and it is difficult to construct a hand that goes beyond 3N or doesn't bid 3 of a pointed suit and lacks the heart Ace. So...East knows that slam is a good bet, but how to bid 7 with confidence?

 

AKx Ax xxxx KQxx makes grand silly...it may make but one shouldn't bid it unless desperate.

 

Exclusion keycard (5♠) drives us beyond 6♣ and 6N is silly on the example hand.

 

We have a good stall via 4♦, which fetches a reassuring 4♥.

 

We can now bid 4♠, over which I think opener bids 5♦...his hand is certainly worth committing to slam on this auction.

 

Now responder has a dilemma. 5N is wonderful if understood as GSF, but maybe it is pick a slam...a recent thread suggested that many would take it as such. I think, perhaps deluding myself, that this is a perfect sequence for GSF since everyone and their dog knows that this is a club hand.

 

If 5N is GSF, BYU (Bob's your uncle...I don't know if that is a universal saying)

 

If not, then over 5♦ we have to cue 5♥ and I think that opener has to bid the grand...he has too many working cards not to opposite a partner who is trying to get there.

 

But this is not easy.

[Phil]

1N - 2♦

2♥ - 3♣

4♣ - 4♦

4♥ - 5♠

6♣* - 6♦**

7♣ - Pass or 7♥

 

* - 1430 EKB.

** - Q ask