kfay Posted March 23, 2010 Report Share Posted March 23, 2010 At the table, I raised and indeed this resulted in a plus turning into a minus. My raise encouraged partner to balance 3♥ over their balance of 3♦, both of which were off one. (1♦)-1♥-(P)-2♥(P) - P - (3♦) - P(P) - 3♥ AP What was partner's hand? lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kfay Posted March 23, 2010 Report Share Posted March 23, 2010 Everyone is aware that for an overcall both your upper and lower bounds are much lower than an opener, right? K, just checking. Not sure exactly what you are suggesting I'm "suggesting" that since his ranger is lower... the range you need to respond is higher!!!! Not saying way way higher, just ever-so-slightly. Clearly we have a cue-raise to distinguish between good raises and bad raises, which is why I think it's good to use them slightly liberally. But isn't this a minimum response to a 1♥ OPENER?! I really don't see why everyone is going bananas. Often light responses to openers attempt to steal, but they already have a lot of info here! Partner making any other bid here after I raise is something I do NOT want to see, and doesn't 2♥ encourage that? Who here would say that raising does not encourage more bidding, in a sense? The reasons for bidding are just not as compelling as the reasons for pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted March 23, 2010 Report Share Posted March 23, 2010 I polled a few experts I knew at Reno and they were strongly in the pass camp. One suggested that his panel of experts would be unanimous for pass, which might not be true but seemed to suggest it wasn't a "wtp" raise. At the table, I raised and indeed this resulted in a plus turning into a minus. My raise encouraged partner to balance 3♥ over their balance of 3♦, both of which were off one. (1♦)-1♥-(P)-2♥(P) - P - (3♦) - P(P) - 3♥ AP Did partner have his bid? A good 6 card H suit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred Posted March 23, 2010 Report Share Posted March 23, 2010 I polled a few experts I knew at Reno and they were strongly in the pass camp. One suggested that his panel of experts would be unanimous for pass, which might not be true but seemed to suggest it wasn't a "wtp" raise. FWIW I am also strongly in the Pass camp and I also think most of the top players in the USA would agree. This hand has a lot of negatives in terms of bidding 2H: - xxx of trumps (a serious red flag)- minimal high card values- high card values may be completely worthless on offense, but may well be useful on defense- poor distribution- you are vulnerable- you are playing matchpoints (which increases the chances that partner will over-compete and also increases the chances that you will get doubled)- if you Pass the auction is not over Meanwhile, for me, finding a single good thing to say about this hand would be difficult. Fred GitelmanBridge Base Inc.www.bridgebase.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peachy Posted March 23, 2010 Report Share Posted March 23, 2010 Was 1D a catchall so my D-QJ might pull some weight? Then 2H appeals.1D promises 3+good, Pass appeals. Now I see suggested 1S psych, that appeals. Though psych seldom enters my mind. That psych would have burned you to crisp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jlall Posted March 23, 2010 Report Share Posted March 23, 2010 FWIW I am also strongly in the Pass camp and I also think most of the top players in the USA would agree. I would pass but expected to be in a fairly significant minority (not that I'm saying you're wrong). Agree with all of your reasons for passing and that is why I would pass, with special emphasis on being red at MP and possibly going for 200 even undoubled. I think that raising has upside though, especially with xx spades, it seems likely that we can push them up a level on momentum by raising sometimes which is a pretty big gain. I don't think this is worth the risk though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bid_em_up Posted March 23, 2010 Report Share Posted March 23, 2010 Meanwhile, for me, finding a single good thing to say about this hand would be difficult. Fred GitelmanBridge Base Inc.www.bridgebase.com It has 13 cards. That's always a good thing. :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted March 24, 2010 Report Share Posted March 24, 2010 Still like to know on what parther's 3H bid was based. Anyone got the hand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goobers Posted March 24, 2010 Report Share Posted March 24, 2010 If memory serves, it was xxxx AKJxx x Axx. I held the advancing hand and also raised, thinking to myself "I shouldn't be raising." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peachy Posted March 24, 2010 Report Share Posted March 24, 2010 If memory serves, it was xxxx AKJxx x Axx. I held the advancing hand and also raised, thinking to myself "I shouldn't be raising." I still don't have the hand record but overcaller has a better hand, something in spades also IIRC. Dummy had 109xx diamonds if this helps anybody find the record or recall the hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quiddity Posted March 24, 2010 Report Share Posted March 24, 2010 [hv=d=w&v=n&n=st653hakj97d7cat9&w=saq74ht64dak54c32&e=skjhq3dt983cqj765&s=s982h852dqj62ck84]399|300|Scoring: MP[/hv] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quiddity Posted March 24, 2010 Report Share Posted March 24, 2010 BTW, the pass by east in the OP was pretty sick (if that's actually what happened). I'm pretty sure I held that hand and raised diamonds immediately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonottawa Posted March 24, 2010 Report Share Posted March 24, 2010 I'm confused, am I 2-3-4-4 or 3-3-4-3? If the former, I'm a bidder, if the latter, I pass. I'll bid with this field and try to outplay them. I'd need a larger expected value than this to deviate this early in the hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted March 24, 2010 Report Share Posted March 24, 2010 I agree that it's a pass with 3343 but 2H with the 2344 but not because I want to bid with the field, but because I think it's the right thing to do. I'd do it in all fields and all circumstances. Maybe raise on the 4x3 after a few beers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goobers Posted March 24, 2010 Report Share Posted March 24, 2010 Advancer's hand should be 2=3=4=4... I don't have the hand records, but I'm pretty sure we had T9xx AKJxx x Axx oppxx xxx QJxx Kxxx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quiddity Posted March 24, 2010 Report Share Posted March 24, 2010 Advancer's hand should be 2=3=4=4... I don't have the hand records, but I'm pretty sure we had T9xx AKJxx x Axx oppxx xxx QJxx Kxxx lol. The spot cards were a subtle clue that I'm holding the hand record. It's board 9 from Thursday night. Advancer was 3=3=4=3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamford Posted March 24, 2010 Report Share Posted March 24, 2010 If this was in the laws and rulings section, it would be moved to simple rulings. It does not belong in this section either, as I cannot see anyone bidding other than 2H. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamford Posted March 24, 2010 Report Share Posted March 24, 2010 If memory serves, it was xxxx AKJxx x Axx. I held the advancing hand and also raised, thinking to myself "I shouldn't be raising." If I held the overcalling hand, I would be thinking to myself I shouldn't be bidding 3H, especially if there were men in white coats around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamford Posted March 24, 2010 Report Share Posted March 24, 2010 well looks like it was hard to get a + on this deal anyway methinks? No it wasn't; it was completely trivial to do so by the normal pass of 3D. And are we 2-3-4-4, as I assume from the OP, or 3-3-4-3 as it seems from a later post - there is a big difference? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamford Posted March 24, 2010 Report Share Posted March 24, 2010 At the table I'd bid 2♥ without thought. Maybe it merits a little thought, but it's still right to bid 2♥. If you pass in this sort of auction, you allow them easy, informative sequences like dbl-pass-1♠ dbl-pass-2♣ 1♠-pass-2♦ Bidding 2♥ immediately makes it more dangerous for LHO to bid, and if he does bid it makes it harder for them to agree on strain and level. The downside of raising is that partner may bid too much, but is that really a big risk? We have a doubleton and a king, and even if our diamonds are under the AK, they may still be useful as protection against being forced. The way to make my diamond holding really useful is to get them to play 3♦. The way to do that is to bid 2♥ now. I regret not seeing your post before replying, as I would not have added anything except that partner will expect one of the reasons you raise will be to push them into a beatable 3D, so why should he bid too much? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted March 25, 2010 Report Share Posted March 25, 2010 [hv=d=w&v=n&n=st653hakj97d7cat9&w=saq74ht64dak54c32&e=skjhq3dt983cqj765&s=s982h852dqj62ck84]399|300|Scoring: MP[/hv] Thanks Quiddity.Well, in my book that is not a 3H bid. You are bidding your values twice. I don't think you can blame the 2H bidder for this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamford Posted March 25, 2010 Report Share Posted March 25, 2010 Well, in my book that is not a 3H bid. You are bidding your values twice. I don't think you can blame the 2H bidder for this. I would blame the opening poster for not getting the hand right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted March 25, 2010 Report Share Posted March 25, 2010 Well, in my book that is not a 3H bid. You are bidding your values twice. I don't think you can blame the 2H bidder for this. I would blame the opening poster for not getting the hand right. Fair comment. I just noticed the 4333 shape. With that hand I wouldn't raise to 2H either. This is a lot worse than having a doubleton in Spades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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