raise partner?

[rbforster]

Partner overcalls 1♥ and it's your bid.

[hv=d=w&v=b&s=sxxhxxxdqjxxckxxx]133|100|Scoring: MP

(1♦)-1♥-(P)-?[/hv]

[gwnn]

2H is a big fat wtp.

[peachy]

Pass looks obvious to me. That's what I did at the table because at MP's, the auction is not over if I pass. Opener is likely to reopen with something and then I will find out if partner's overcall was a "lead director in case they play spades or NT" or a better hand.

 

Actually, the auction at our table was different so the problem was different for us. Sorry for spoiling the problem.

 

At our table RHO raised diamonds so it was (1D) 1H (2D) and your turn. I passed.

The full auction proceeded profitably and we defended 3DX for +500 after

1D -1H -2D - P

P - X - P - 2H

P - P -3D - X

PPP

Edited March 19, 2010 by peachy

[655321]

I would always bid 2♥ with this.

 

Pass looks obvious to me.  That's what I did at the table because at MP's, the auction is not over if I pass.  Opener is likely to reopen with something and then I will find out if partner's overcall was a "lead director in case they play spades or NT" or a better hand.

Passing because you have a bad 6 count with 3 small trumps and a QJ in their suit is something I can understand and respect. But passing to find out if partner's overcall was a "lead director in case they play spades or NT" or a better hand makes no sense at all to me, sorry.

[Fluffy]

I play a style where non jump raises are sound, this hand doesn't qualify for it.

 

This style is very useful in weak fields so you know where you are, however it also lets the opponents know where they are and I suspect it won't work that good on serious fields.

 

NV I'd bid 3♥.

[jjbrr]

I'd raise but I can definitely live with a pass if that's what partner chose to do.

[peachy]

I would always bid 2♥ with this.

 

Pass looks obvious to me.  That's what I did at the table because at MP's, the auction is not over if I pass.  Opener is likely to reopen with something and then I will find out if partner's overcall was a "lead director in case they play spades or NT" or a better hand.

Passing because you have a bad 6 count with 3 small trumps and a QJ in their suit is something I can understand and respect. But passing to find out if partner's overcall was a "lead director in case they play spades or NT" or a better hand makes no sense at all to me, sorry.

I am all for "raise partner" and "raise when you have a raise". With three working points in one K, only three card support, balanced hand, and worthless QJxx in their suit made me judge Pass was better and that a raise later - if given the chance and if it were right at that point - would be better because I would know more about the hands then.

[Apollo81]

I voted 2♥ eh. I don't really think we have game, I'm just trying to shut them out of the auction. This could even go for a number on a bad day. Three small trumps and QJxx their suit just sucks.

[kfay]

I think this is a wtp pass, but I'm willing to have my mind changed by good MPers.

 

Bidding seems a good way to shut them out, but it also seems a good way to turn a plus into a minus. You're likely on a misfit, since partner probably has spades, so our honors are not working and we're vul. LHO is going to come back in and now we may get out-competed but partner and I have much better ideas of what's going on.

[rogerclee]

Pretty obvious pass to me, it would not surprise me at all for 2H to turn a plus into a minus.

[Phil]

Lol at the wtp 2H calls. This is such an easy pass. Change the hand around a little and its more of a problem.

[gnasher]

At the table I'd bid 2♥ without thought. Maybe it merits a little thought, but it's still right to bid 2♥.

 

If you pass in this sort of auction, you allow them easy, informative sequences like

 

  dbl-pass-1♠

 

  dbl-pass-2♣

 

  1♠-pass-2♦

 

Bidding 2♥ immediately makes it more dangerous for LHO to bid, and if he does bid it makes it harder for them to agree on strain and level.

 

The downside of raising is that partner may bid too much, but is that really a big risk? We have a doubleton and a king, and even if our diamonds are under the AK, they may still be useful as protection against being forced.

 

The way to make my diamond holding really useful is to get them to play 3♦. The way to do that is to bid 2♥ now.

Edited March 20, 2010 by gnasher

[kfay]

The downside of raising is that partner may bid too much, but is that really a big risk?

Yes.

 

Some people still haven't gone colorblind, for good reason.

[Siegmund]

I like bidding - mostly to deprive opener of several easy rebids (goes past 2D to clarify his diamond length) ... but I will admittedly not be real happy to see partner bid 3H because of his singleton diamond on the next round of bidding.

 

Pass could easily be right. But IF I'm ever going to bid, much better to do it now than to wait for it go X-p-1S back to me.

[the hog]

Pretty obvious 2H bid.

[MFA]

2♥. A normal minmum.

[kfay]

Everyone is aware that for an overcall both your upper and lower bounds are much lower than an opener, right?

 

K, just checking.

[whereagles]

1♠ psych is obvious :)

[dake50]

Was 1D a catchall so my D-QJ might pull some weight? Then 2H appeals.

1D promises 3+good, Pass appeals.

 

Now I see suggested 1S psych, that appeals. Though psych seldom enters my mind.

[rbforster]

I polled a few experts I knew at Reno and they were strongly in the pass camp. One suggested that his panel of experts would be unanimous for pass, which might not be true but seemed to suggest it wasn't a "wtp" raise.

 

At the table, I raised and indeed this resulted in a plus turning into a minus. My raise encouraged partner to balance 3♥ over their balance of 3♦, both of which were off one.

 

(1♦)-1♥-(P)-2♥

(P) - P - (3♦) - P

(P) - 3♥ AP

[nigel_k]

Everyone is aware that for an overcall both your upper and lower bounds are much lower than an opener, right?

 

K, just checking.

Not sure exactly what you are suggesting, but over an opener you can bid 1NT forcing and give preference with 3 cards and a weak hand. Over an overcall you can cue bid with 3 card support and a good hand. So I think the two situations are not analagous.

 

Suppose you have agreed opening bids are 11-20 and overcalls are 8-17. I still think with three card support you should raise the opening bid with 7-10 and raise the overcall with 6-9. Because you have different ways of dealing with hands outside the range.

 

I agree with downgrading this to a pass though. I'll probably have to bid 2♥ later so could do it immediately to try and shut them out but partner will over compete quite often as our hand is so poor. And I think it will be quite hard to shut them out of spades even if I raise and I don't mind if they play three of a minor.

[peachy]

I polled a few experts I knew at Reno and they were strongly in the pass camp. One suggested that his panel of experts would be unanimous for pass, which might not be true but seemed to suggest it wasn't a "wtp" raise.

 

At the table, I raised and indeed this resulted in a plus turning into a minus. My raise encouraged partner to balance 3♥ over their balance of 3♦, both of which were off one.

 

(1♦)-1♥-(P)-2♥

(P) - P - (3♦) - P

(P) - 3♥ AP

At my table 3DX was off two, but I don't remember whether due to misplay by them or genius by my partner (I don't recall brilliancy on my part; and I would remember if there was cuz its rare :) )

[gnasher]

At the table, I raised and indeed this resulted in a plus turning into a minus. My raise encouraged partner to balance 3♥ over their balance of 3♦, both of which were off one.

 

(1♦)-1♥-(P)-2♥

(P) - P - (3♦) - P

(P) - 3♥ AP

What was partner's hand?

[gwnn]

well looks like it was hard to get a + on this deal anyway methinks?

[aguahombre]

2H. Context: overcalls are around 10+. Law bids follow in competitive auctions. If partner had 6 hearts and we got a bad result for 3H, oh well. If pard had the same overcall she started with and chose to bid again, hmmmm.