So, what's this?

[TylerE]

(3♦) - X - (4♦) - X?

[Free]

Bid your longest Major

[jjbrr]

concur

[whereagles]

it's called responsive double and it means as above ^^

[jdonn]

You can pass too, as I would on a (43)24 hand for example, or 3325.

[pooltuna]

(3♦) - X - (4♦) - X?

this is really, really our hand but I don't have a clear idea of what or how high to bid.

[MFA]

Just a standard responsive double.

[andy_h]

Two places to play.

[MFA]

Two places to play.

Hi Andy, nice meeting you in Gold Coast. Unfortunately we didn't have much time to talk (I was busy butchering contracts unfortunately :)).

[gnasher]

You should bid your lower 4-card or longer major (or pass). That is, with a 5413 shape you should bid 4♥, in case partner is x4x4.

[TylerE]

Ok, just sanity checking..all is well (Except on this board where partner holding 4=4=0=5 passed, playing me for a pen X, which made (8-4 ♦ fit, stiff in all 3 suits between the hands), with our side cold for 7♥, or 6♠

[fred]

You should bid your lower 4-card or longer major (or pass).  That is, with a 5413 shape you should bid 4♥, in case partner is x4x4.

As far as I can tell, this good and important point is not quite part of "expert common knowledge" yet.

 

Fred Gitelman

Bridge Base Inc.

www.bridgebase.com

[MFA]

You should bid your lower 4-card or longer major (or pass).  That is, with a 5413 shape you should bid 4♥, in case partner is x4x4.

I disagree with that, I think we need to bid spades with that shape. Partner will often have to live with a 4♥-bid on his three-card suit.

[jdonn]

You should bid your lower 4-card or longer major (or pass).  That is, with a 5413 shape you should bid 4♥, in case partner is x4x4.

I disagree with that, I think we need to bid spades with that shape. Partner will often have to live with a 4♥-bid on his three-card suit.

With what shape? As long as partner understands you would bid 4♥ with that shape I can't picture a shape where he doubles and passes 4♥ with a 3 card suit. 3325, 4333 etc. can all pull to 4♠.

[aguahombre]

ok, so with 3 3 2 5, we cannot play 4 hearts if partner is 4 5 1 3. Partner bids 4 hearts/the resp x, and I must pull in case he has 5 spades and four hearts. Too clever for me.

[gwnn]

3325 is not 2 places to play.

 

Well it is since you'd like to play either clubs or diamonds but that can't be arranged. I think with 3325 you either bid 5c or you pass

[aguahombre]

3325 is not 2 places to play.

 

Well it is since you'd like to play either clubs or diamonds but that can't be arranged. I think with 3325 you either bid 5c or you pass

right. The responsive double at this level should have 4 in both majors, or 4 in one major and longer clubs.

[gnasher]

3325 is not 2 places to play.

 

Well it is since you'd like to play either clubs or diamonds but that can't be arranged. I think with 3325 you either bid 5c or you pass

You can also double, but then convert either major to clubs.

[MFA]

You should bid your lower 4-card or longer major (or pass).  That is, with a 5413 shape you should bid 4♥, in case partner is x4x4.

I disagree with that, I think we need to bid spades with that shape. Partner will often have to live with a 4♥-bid on his three-card suit.

With what shape? As long as partner understands you would bid 4♥ with that shape I can't picture a shape where he doubles and passes 4♥ with a 3 card suit. 3325, 4333 etc. can all pull to 4♠.

I probably misunderstood your post.

 

Pull to 4♠ with 3-3 in the majors? :)

 

I think the initial doubler is expected to pass 4♦X often with normal shapes. We can't indulge ourselves and make a responsive double with 5-5 or some 5-4 in the majors. A responsive double shows less than that. So pulling would often be into a five-card suit.

[jdonn]

Maybe 3325 was a bad example, but I didn't have a point so much as a question. On what shape with 3 hearts will responder have to double then pass a 4♥ bid?

[aguahombre]

Maybe 3325 was a bad example, but I didn't have a point so much as a question. On what shape with 3 hearts will responder have to double then pass a 4♥ bid?

good question, IMHO. Based on what I think a resp double should look like, there isn't a hand with 3 hearts which would pass 4H. with 4315, he would remove 4H to 4S and original doubler would take a choice between spades and clubs. Other than 4-3-0-6, can't think of another resp double without 4 hearts.

 

Of course, that might fly in the face of those who think the resp double can be left in without a huge balanced hand for the original double and without multiple diamond tricks. It goes back to respect for the original double of 3D.

[jdonn]

So if we can agree the second doubler never passes 4♥ with just 3 hearts, then we can also agree bidding 4♥ on 5413 is guaranteed to find an 8+ card fit? The worst the happens is you play an 8 card heart fit with a 9 card spade fit on the side, but bidding 4♠ on 5413 gets you to clubs when partner is 2434 or 2425 or something.

[aguahombre]

yep, that part seems obvious to me, once we agree that a hand with only one place to play (4 3 3 3) opposite a 3DX would just take his chances and bid 4S, not a responsive double.

[junyi_zhu]

(3♦) - X - (4♦) - X?

I think it just says I have some good values and no clear bid available and defense is certainly a good option. So the first doubler should sit the double with most balanced and semi-balanced hands. The doubler shouldn't expect that partner may hold a good 4 card major suit IMHO.