negative doubles opposite limited hands

[straube]

I read that Meckwell only plays negative dbls at the 3-level and I figured they might know best how high to play opposite a limited partner.

 

Should higher dbls though be negative or should they just be takeout oriented? Penalty?

 

Let's say your dealt KQx x AKQJx xxxx and the auction goes 1D(artificial)-(4H) to you?

 

What do you want your dbl here to show and what do you do?

[OleBerg]

To put it simple:

 

The higher the level, the less shape requirements.

 

Whether you call it "negative" or "take-out", is just a matter of words.

 

At the 5-level, some players even play them as fit-showing, or highly indicating a fit.

 

Edit: On the hand I double. If partner bids 4♠, I pull to 5♣, having shown a hand that can play in both minors.

[gnasher]

Whether you call it "negative" or "take-out", is just a matter of words.

That's probably true as these terms are commonly used, but I think the world would be a slightly better place if we had one term meaning "4 cards in each unbid major" and another meaning "some support for all the unbid suits". So I like the usage implied by the question, even if it's not universal.

[OleBerg]

Whether you call it "negative" or "take-out", is just a matter of words.

That's probably true as these terms are commonly used, but I think the world would be a slightly better place if we had one term meaning "4 cards in each unbid major" and another meaning "some support for all the unbid suits". So I like the usage implied by the question, even if it's not universal.

Indeed.

 

I was trying to illustrate, that, for some, there is no clearcut boundary.

[jjbrr]

Obv when they preempt you have less room to be precise, so your doubles have to be more flexible and can contain a wide range of hands, some of which aren't described perfectly by the double. The fact that double is overloaded with all sorts of different hand types should be a good indication that it would be very hard to describe your hand to partner if you didn't have double available at all if you play them as penalty. Of course if you have a penalty double of their preempt and you have a hand with which to penalize, you put yourself in a good position, but on the other hands you put yourself in a much worse position. The latter hand type is much more common.

[straube]

No one's really addressed the issue of opener being a limited hand that has yet to describe its shape. Is that because it doesn't matter? I see opener having difficulty doubling back in on a lot of hands. Say the bidding goes 1D (4H) P P and I hold AKx x KQxxx xxx. I'm passing, right?

So I guess I'm afraid of the opponents stealing from us.

[gwnn]

You have to pass without extraordinary shape or great controls, especially when you have 12 cards (which is admittedly quite extraordinary).