ATB#2

[vuroth]

Not that I want to blame anyone, really, well except myself if it's my fault. I just want to learn from these disasters.

 

[hv=d=s&v=e&n=sa7hat2dt8643c532&s=sthk53dakqjcqj964]133|200|Scoring: IMP

1♣ 1♠ 1NT 3♠

X P P P

 

3♠ went +1 for +930 for E/W[/hv]

[helene_t]

What did S intend to rebid over 1♠ from North? I suppose he judged that he was strong enough to reverse. Otherwise a 1♦ opening is better.

 

North has an awkward hand. Good advertisement for 4-card majors as he could have bid 2♣ then. Playing 5-card majors, I suppose 1NT is ok. Some would double. Maybe some would pass.

 

What did South mean by the double? I think penalty is standard. But even with the understanding that it is penalty, it is hard to see what else South could do. Oh well he could have tried 3NT or 4♦ but obviously dbl will often be a winner.

 

I think this is just bad luck.

[hotShot]

I don't like south dbl. I would have tried pass (don't drive them to game) or 4♦, because I expect a fit there.

I assume that opps have 9+♠ so partner won't have more than 3. Partner should dbl holding 4(+)♥ and he could have raised ♣ with 5(+) cards. Partner should have 4♦ cards, right?

[ArtK78]

South has a big problem over 3♠. I can't say what I would have done over 3♠ except that double would not be my choice. It could work out, but I fully expect that the opponents will make 9 or 10 tricks much of the time when I hold this hand.

[TylerE]

100% to south. Open 1♦ and don't double.

[jdonn]

Call me weird but I open 1NT with south. Exactly 16, awkward rebids, ten in spades.

 

Anyway you just need an agreement. If double is takeout obviously north won't pass. If double is penalty obviously south won't double.

[Codo]

IMHO opening 1 ♦ with 45 in the minors is overrated, esp. in the BI sector.

But this time it had worked.

 

And next time you bid

 

1 ♦ (1♠) 1NT (3♠) 4 ♣ ???

 

And partner with a 3433 puts you back to your 4-3 fit. No success either.

Switch partners minors and you had been very happy to open 1 club to find 4 club.

[TylerE]

Codo: I disagree whole-heartly. 4♣ on your auction IMO has to be 5... with a minimumhand a nothing of a value to show you PASS. Partner hasn't promised the world's fair here, so you need some real reason to suspect 4♣ is making. With (x)(x)54 you just pass 3♠ and see what partner can do...

[pooltuna]

100% to North TOXs are for takeout. By passing he is punishing partner for protecting him even tho partner knows N couldn't sit for 1♠X

[quiddity]

I don't see how this double could ever be penalty. The opps have a 9 card fit and partner says he has a no-trump stopper. It must be far more useful to have double show extra values - exactly the kind of hand South has. North can then decide to pass, bid 3N, or explore a minor suit contract based on his spade holding and the vulnerability.

 

And yes, it seems pretty weird to open the South hand 1NT.

[nigel_k]

North 100% as well. You do need an agreement but I might double with South if it was undiscussed and would always pull with North unless certain the double was penalty.

[Codo]

Codo: I disagree whole-heartly. 4♣ on your auction IMO has to be 5... with a minimumhand a nothing of a value to show you PASS. Partner hasn't promised the world's fair here, so you need some real reason to suspect 4♣ is making. With (x)(x)54 you just pass 3♠ and see what partner can do...

Okay, so you can just show one suit if they compete heavily?

If so, why do you want to open your 4 card suit and not your 5 card suit?

[P_Marlowe]

***** happens.

 

I am not sure, I would have made the X, but as long as

both side agree, that it is T/O, the X is fine.

 

Of course opener is a little poor on controls, and opener

has to expect, that the X gets passed out, but that his

on hinsight.

 

So the X was agressive, but ..., see my first two words.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[aguahombre]

I believe those who think the double of 3S was penalty are confusing two different situations:

 

On an earlier string, many argued that when our side has bid notrump in a natural sense, any double of a 3-level action is penalty. That agreement should not apply when both opponents have shown the suit, rather when only one has.

 

Here, the double seems just about right by the club opener -- responder should expect reverse values with longer clubs. Opener is minimum for this, but....

[helene_t]

Codo: I disagree whole-heartly. 4♣ on your auction IMO has to be 5... with a minimumhand a nothing of a value to show you PASS. Partner hasn't promised the world's fair here, so you need some real reason to suspect 4♣ is making. With (x)(x)54 you just pass 3♠ and see what partner can do...

Okay, so you can just show one suit if they compete heavily?

If so, why do you want to open your 4 card suit and not your 5 card suit?

A 1♣ opening obviously works better if you are going to show both of you suits since p will assume 5+ diamonds otherwise.

 

The case for opening 1♦ is that the hand has no rebid over 1♣-1♠. Of course if you think the hand is good enough to reverse, it is no problem.

[mcphee]

Double is t/o, I have no idea what N is thinking when they passed, 4D is pretty clear to me. If 1NT shows a forward going hand dble is very sensible imho. The only downside to opening 1D is you are forced into rebidding 1NT over partners S response and you are heavy for this. You sort of face the same problem should you open a D and rebid 2C over a S response. If partner now bids 2D are you really going to trot out 2NT? Not so wonderful with a stiff S and a hand that can have very little to offer as dummy.