to run or not to run?

[cnszsun]

[hv=d=e&v=n&s=sxhadxxxcakqjxxxx]133|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

You are sitting South:

(1H)-3NT-(DBL)-P

(P) - ?

 

This is an interesting hand i found somewhere, will you pass or run to 4C?

What does Redbl here mean?

 

(supposed to be in "interesting bridge hand" forum, pls help to move there)

[luke warm]

what does the x show? spades or cards? they have a major suit game, but the vulnerability makes it wrong to pass (imo)

 

i'd bid 4C but 5C might be right

[mishovnbg]

Pass.

And your partner will play with you again. You told your story, he decide to pass, instead of 4♣ p/c. Trust him! He can have unexpected for opps hand, stopping their suit with junk. Example:

10xxxx,xxx,Axxx,x

Opps can expect to take their ♠ with AKQJxx...

Misho

[Cascade]

Last time I trusted my partner on this auction I was booked for down 9!!!

 

Nevertheless I agree with Misho it is right to trust your partner.

[Free]

Pass, you have 9 tricks :D

[joker_gib]

I play with a partner, I promised a long minor and a ♥ stopper and he decided to pass so I pass, of course ! :D

[Chamaco]

I play with a partner, I promised a long minor and a ♥ stopper and he decided to pass so I pass, of course ! :D

Some players in similar situations play that XX means "I have nothing else".

 

E.g.: I saw a Meckwell auction like this

 

1♥-(3♥*)-p-(3NT**)

p-p-Dbl-p

p-Rdbl***

 

3♥*= stopper ask to play NT. Often 3NT Gambling-type hand

3NT**= I have the stopper

Rdbl***= pard I have nothing else except the running minor, please run if you do not have decent stoppers

 

It seems to me this may applied similarly in the auction presented: I have "only" a 7 card minor and a solid stopper in the suit. Please run if other suits are unstopped.

 

This allows to pass the buck to partner so he can decide.

[mikestar]

Let's look at North's alternatives over the double:

 

4C = I've got nothing, we're dead if the lead spades or the other minor.

Redbl = I've got the side suits locked down, they're going to bleed.

Pass = Too good to run, to bad to redouble.

 

South should run out, North would have redoubled with secure stoppers. South's redouble shold show doubt--the message to North will be "if you almost redoubled, pass; if you almost bid 4C, bid it now."

 

At this vulerability 4C is enough, at equal I bid 5C, at favorable I would consider 6C.

[pclayton]

I'm not so sure. I don't play the 3N call as showing just a heart stop and a running suit. I would expect at least one stop in the pointed suits here for 3N.

 

And if there is any confusion about the meaning of 3N, a redouble by me certainly says, "I have doubt". If pard doesnt have ♦/♠ covered, he should pull.

 

A redouble by pard on the other hand says they stepped in it.

[the hog]

Pass. I bid my hand. Its partner's job to pull.

[luke warm]

Pass, you have 9 tricks :lol:

he he he he

 

i still wanna know what the x meant :)

[whereagles]

This depends on who pard and opps are. The 3NT bid shows exactly what I have, so..

 

1. If pard is reliable, capable and knows what 3NT means, pass. If you are known to do this sort of overcalls on less suitable hands (say no K of clubs), this is especially true - pard is more likely to pull on borderline cases.

 

If pard's judgement isn't too good, you check opponents:

 

2. If LHO is the Walrus (e.g. a pure point counter), he's trusting his 12 points will set you on their own. He'll surely lead a heart, so you pass.

 

3. If LHO is a good player, he'll probably make the right lead and you go for a number. So it's better to bid 4C. Don't redouble because pard won't understand it. He'll pass and your phone bill doubles.

 

Note: if pard is indeed not too good, it's better strategy to rescue yourself and go plus than to go for a number and put the blame on pard for "misjudging the situation". Pard believes he has done his duty of "passing the double because I have weak hand", so he'll think it's all YOUR fault for not having rescued yourself. LOL.

[Cascade]

Note: if pard is indeed not too good, it's better strategy to rescue yourself and go plus than to go for a number and put the blame on pard for "misjudging the situation". Pard believes he has done his duty of "passing the double because I have weak hand", so he'll think it's all YOUR fault for not having rescued yourself. LOL.

-2300 might be a good way to teach partner that sometimes he has to take control.

[EarlPurple]

3. If LHO is a good player, he'll probably make the right lead and you go for a number. So it's better to bid 4C. Don't redouble because pard won't understand it. He'll pass and your phone bill doubles.

Another one who pulls out of a good result because the opps are "experts". Just don't play with partners you don't trust in the first place.

[luke warm]

i don't think this is quite fair, earl (the not trusting part)... to me this hand isn't about trusting partner's pass.. give him a yarlborough, what should he bid?

[whereagles]

-2300 might be a good way to teach partner that sometimes he has to take control.

Only if he is willing to learn. Many aren't. And besides, I don't think it's good pedagogics to teach someone by having him beaten with a stick.

 

 

Just don't play with partners you don't trust in the first place.

That's easier said than done. Most players out there are unreliable. I just play the odds.

[Cascade]

-2300 might be a good way to teach partner that sometimes he has to take control.

Only if he is willing to learn. Many aren't. And besides, I don't think it's good pedagogics to teach someone by having him beaten with a stick.

You won't teach partner much by pulling a cold 3NT either.

 

Bottom line I would rather go for -2300 with a weak partner than pull out of a making 3NT when it is not my decision to make.

[whereagles]

I don't like punishing partner for being a weak player. I prefer to assume he misjudged and pull out 3NT myself. If it's right, pard will be happy and will keep playing well. If it's wrong, I'll apologize.

 

Weak players know even experts make mistakes. They don't feel bad about an error made by the expert. They tend to forvige those mistakes and concentrate even more, which is precisely what I want. On the other hand, they resent heavily a terrible score such as -2300, especially when they feel they did the right thing passing with zero points. You may keep your expert reputation intact, but lose popularity. I don't have that big an ego to put it above my will to win.

[Free]

If you're the expert, and your partner the beginner, then you should learn him to become a better bridge player. By pulling a cold 3NT you won't reach your goal. If you have to sacrifice and make a mistake yourself after every possible mistake your p does, you won't get anywhere. Your p won't believe what you tell him anymore, cause you make too many mistakes yourself.

 

Important thing is the way you explain to your p he made a mistake. If you start yelling for -2300, you're at the wrong road again. No need for apologies from both sides, just explain p what you show with your bid, the logic behind the bidding, and why he should (not) bid after the Dbl. Give him a compliment if he passed or redoubled correctly...

[helene_t]

Exactly this happened to me few weeks ago. It was the first time my new p confronted a gambling 3NT so I was a little nervous. She had everything stopped, I made +2.

 

So always trust your partner. Rdbl if that is the correct bid. Otherwise, pass.

[whereagles]

If you're the expert, and your partner the beginner, then you should learn him to become a better bridge player. (...)

Important thing is the way you explain to your p he made a mistake.

Like I said, that's all nice and well... if pard wants to learn. Some people are not interested in learning. They just want to win. And to win I must make the percentage play, which, opposite a weak pard, I believe is a pull out. In the end I would, of course, explain him nicely what was going on on that hand.

 

Keep in mind this is opposite a WEAK partner. Opposite any good parnter, to pull out is the worst thing you can do, because it denotes you're treating him as you'd tread a weak partner. He'll feel outraged. Helene's story only shows a point if she tells us who pard and the opponents were.

[Free]

How can you say a POOR player just wants to win?? :lol: How CAN a poor player win?? By becoming a better player, not by luck or the skills of his partner :P Poor players are happy if they reach 50%, that's it... Ofcourse, everybody wants to win, but they just can't, and they know it. And if they can't understand that winning is all about skill, then they'll never win imo, even with all the luck in the world.

 

And if they still don't want to learn, if they're completely blind of "want to win" and "don't want to learn", then I don't think I have to ruin MY reputation by making unnecessary mistakes for such players, but teach them the hard way by giving them -2300 (hopefully scoring in imps). If they still don't want to think clear after several such telephone numbers, then I think you better look for another partner, cause thinking for 2 isn't fun at all, and if it goes wrong, you've done it anyway...

[whereagles]

Many people believe they can win if they hire a good partner. They trust YOU to make the difficult decisions (because they don't understand this is a partnership game). It's your duty not to let them down. Especially if they're paying...

 

The human mind isn't always logical, and the above is an example of how it sometimes works irrationally.

[Free]

Lol, ok, when they pay you, you should do whatever to win. You have a point there :rolleyes:

[paulhar]

I thnik y'all are doing a disservice to your weak partner by trying to teaching him anything of the sort. Presumably, you are playing with this partner to help him learn. If you clutter his mind with junk like pulling 3NTx on this hand (which may come up again in ten years), the poor guy will be so confused and unable to learn the routine concepts he should be learning. Not to mention that the next time it does come up, his partner might have 3NT cold in his own hand.

 

If your beginner partner displays a misconception which is going to hurt him on a lot of hands, now you might want to say something. Not because his misconception cost on this hand, but because it will help him frequently in the long run if he learns the concept.

 

Different people have a different capacity to learn, but in my experience, if you give your partner more than three lessons in a 26 board session, you are asking for trouble. Your partner will play worse and also will be less receptive to learning.

 

If you're playing with the poor player in an individual or a random click in the Main Bridge Club, I still think you're doing your partner a disservice by 'teaching him THIS lesson' unless he asks. He's probably thrilled to be playing with you; don't change that fact. If you guess wrong over the double, admit that you guessed wrong and get on to the next deal. Don't berate partner for his ignorance.

 

Hey - we're bridge players and keeping our mouth shut is tough! But I have found it to be worthwile when my partners play above their expected ability.