Am I still forced?

[billw55]

[hv=d=s&v=n&s=sa98h64dq6cajt983]133|100|Scoring: XIMP[/hv]

 

OK, another maybe basic one where partner thought I got it wrong.

 

1♣ - p - 1♥ - 2♦

?

 

I thought that the intervening 2♦ bid relieved me of my obligation to make a call, and passed since 3♣ seemed a bit much for this hand. Partner insisted that I must bid 3♣ directly over 2♦.

[jdonn]

Your thought process and your action were both exactly right, well done. There is no need for you to be forced to act since partner is going to get another chance. Bidding 3♣ on this is dangerous since you are so weak, preempts partner who might want to do something like rebid hearts, and makes it much harder to show when you actually have extra values and long clubs.

[ArtK78]

This is about as basic a question as can be.

 

1♥ was forcing. Once the opponent intervenes, however, partner is guaranteed the chance to make another call. So opener is not required to call.

 

I am sure that most of the planet would take a 3♣ call here to show long clubs (yes) and extras (no). So pass is certainly normal over 2♦.

[PhantomSac]

You were right

[jjbrr]

The triumph of an "I told you so" is much too cheaply won these days. Go easy on your partner when you show him this thread.

[billw55]

The triumph of an "I told you so" is much too cheaply won these days. Go easy on your partner when you show him this thread.

I wasn't planning to.

 

My only uncertainty was that this was specificaly the club suit, where 1♣ shows ... nothing in particular. Therefore rebidding clubs would have some descriptive value, so I didn't consider partner's position completely unreasonable.

[jjbrr]

I was being facetious. The point is you can pass now and bid 3♣ then next time to show this hand.

[Stephen Tu]

3♣ would show a much stronger hand than this. Some partnerships play a "good-bad 2nt" or "bad-good 2nt", Lebensohl/reverse Lebensohl- like structure to be able to show both strong hands with clubs (that would have jumped to 3c if 4th hand had passed), and weaker hands with clubs.

 

But the given hand I think should fall below the minimum even for the weaker sequence. If you changed the Q of diamonds into the Q of clubs making you 3-2-1-7 on the other hand ...

[Fluffy]

if 3♣ is a good bid or not its a judgement call (my opinion and the consensous here is that it is a poor bid).

 

But the main questions is: Do I have to bid?, that's completelly absurd, you have a pass avaible to show minimum hands and pass is a great bid since it consumes no space.

 

If somebody told you you have to bid, he is one of the best (or worse) examples of being resulting.

[peachy]

Pass over 2D was 100% correct. Bidding 3C would not only be poor, it would be wrong.

[the hog]

I echo all the above comments.

[neilkaz]

Bidding 3♣ would be horrendous and note that the minimum you opened with has gotten worse do the the 2♦ overcall as your queen has more chance to be worthless and there's somewhat more chance that RHO may have something sitting over pard's ♥

[billw55]

OK, so this one is as simple as I thought.

 

To round out a funny story, here is the whole hand and auction. Apparently my memory of the spot cards was a bit off:

 

[hv=d=s&v=n&n=skqthkj932d54ckq5&w=sj97ht7djt96c7632&e=s6432haq85dak873c&s=sa85h64dq2cajt984]399|300|Scoring: XIMP

1♣ - p - 1♥ - 2♦

p - p - 2♥ - p

p - 3♦ - 3♥ - x

p - 4♦ - x - p

p - p

[/hv]

.. which made when I led a heart. My suggestion to balance with a double instead of 2♥ fell on deaf ears, and 3♥ was .. er .. entertaining. However, he was kind enough to inform me that I am not an advanced player. Which is probably true over the table, but on BBO ...

 

It gave me some good lols.

[helene_t]

Yeah, North needs to double 2♦. If he is afraid that you would take dbl as penalty, he should bid 3♥. If he is afraid you won't understand that either, he could bid 2♠. But certainly not 2♥, that shows a weak hand with six hearts.

[P_Marlowe]

You can pass 2D, due to the intervention p gets the chance to speak

again.

 

Unless you play some sort of good-bad, you cant bid 3C, and X would

be suppX for most peoble, so Pass is your only real alternative.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[pooltuna]

Your thought process and your action were both exactly right, well done. There is no need for you to be forced to act since partner is going to get another chance. Bidding 3♣ on this is dangerous since you are so weak, preempts partner who might want to do something like rebid hearts, and makes it much harder to show when you actually have extra values and long clubs.

BINGO!! GIVE THE MAN $20...oh wait that was a different thread...ah pay him anyway cause he's right here too.

[pooltuna]

.. which made when I led a heart. My suggestion to balance with a double instead of 2♥ fell on deaf ears, and 3♥ was .. er .. entertaining. However, he was kind enough to inform me that I am not an advanced player. Which is probably true over the table, but on BBO ...

 

It gave me some good lols.

Your only failure was not to provide an AFI warning in the original post :ph34r:

[neilkaz]

Bill..your partner was so shockingly wrong this hand. I hope your future sessions are with better partners. :ph34r: LOL at his 2♥ rebid with a GF hand after you open.

[billw55]

Your only failure was not to provide an AFI warning in the original post  :ph34r:

What is AFI ?

[billw55]

Bill..your partner was so shockingly wrong this hand. I hope your future sessions are with better partners. :ph34r: LOL at his 2♥ rebid with a GF hand after you open.

It can be difficult to get a good partner in a pickup game. I would love to have a regular partner of roughly my skill for my daily lunch hour game, but that seems unlikely to happen. So I make do finding an open seat in the main room.

 

Also interesting that in this case partner's hand certainly rates a game force, but no game can make. I guess after a balancing double and 3♣ response, the most likely result is 5♣-2, possibly doubled.

[pooltuna]

Your only failure was not to provide an AFI warning in the original post  :ph34r:

What is AFI ?

The letter I is 5 letters starting with Id hopefully your imagination can fill in the rest. :ph34r:

[neilkaz]

Bill..your partner was so shockingly wrong this hand. I hope your future sessions are with better partners.  :( LOL at his 2♥ rebid with a GF hand after you open.

It can be difficult to get a good partner in a pickup game. I would love to have a regular partner of roughly my skill for my daily lunch hour game, but that seems unlikely to happen. So I make do finding an open seat in the main room.

 

Also interesting that in this case partner's hand certainly rates a game force, but no game can make. I guess after a balancing double and 3♣ response, the most likely result is 5♣-2, possibly doubled.

Bill, I play in MBC very commonly and it can be difficult to find a decent pard also at times.

 

I suggest making good compatable ones friends. Also in the comments box you can mark more notes about what they play etc.

 

In this case, you were playing with a clueless loudmouthed moron and I'd have left instantly, in search of someone else. To be that far wrong with bidding and then to tell you that you aren't advanced is simply more than I'd tolerate.

 

Here's hoping your next lunchtime game is more fun. .. neilkaz ..

[Fluffy]

I remember the hard times at MBC, I met some interesting people, but overall it was tough to find decent ones, specially because everyone had a tendency to give me lessons O_o.

 

But after a couple of years I got that yellow star, things get pretty different after it. Even though there are now dozens of starts who know nothing about the game, but nobody knows :/.

[whereagles]

GOOD hand for good-BAD 2NT (pun intended :D)

[dealmegold]

Yeah, North needs to double 2♦. If he is afraid that you would take dbl as penalty, he should bid 3♥. If he is afraid you won't understand that either, he could bid 2♠. But certainly not 2♥, that shows a weak hand with six hearts.

...and if p makes the wrong bid because he's afraid you won't understand the correct one, that's his problem!