kfay Posted March 3, 2010 Report Share Posted March 3, 2010 [hv=d=w&v=e&s=skqj10976h3dakj4ca]133|100|Scoring: IMP(P)-P-(3♥)-?[/hv] What's your scheme to show these? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhantomSac Posted March 3, 2010 Report Share Posted March 3, 2010 5S obv. No this doesn't ask for a control, it just shows a hand between 4S and 6S. I might go down, and partner won't bid slam completely accurately (since he doesn't know the difference between the CQ and the DQ), but this feels best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted March 3, 2010 Report Share Posted March 3, 2010 4NT then 5♠ this should be the invitatinal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted March 3, 2010 Report Share Posted March 3, 2010 I like 5S but I feel like I'm a little too strong for that. However, bidding 6 does sound a little weird with 50% of all aces missing. Anyway, I really hope nobody suggests x. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted March 3, 2010 Report Share Posted March 3, 2010 Cmon, Kevin --gimme the spade 8 instead of the 6, so I won't pull a "Barry Crane" at trick two and lose two spade tricks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhantomSac Posted March 3, 2010 Report Share Posted March 3, 2010 4NT then 5♠ this should be the invitatinal. So how do you bid A x AKJxx AKQxxx after 3H 4N p 5C p ? 4N shows the minors, and later bidding 5S does not undo that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted March 3, 2010 Report Share Posted March 3, 2010 Yes 5♠ invitational to 6 should be wtp, at least for people who know what it means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted March 3, 2010 Report Share Posted March 3, 2010 your cat mated with a rabbit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggwhiz Posted March 3, 2010 Report Share Posted March 3, 2010 4NT then 5♠ this should be the invitatinal. So how do you bid A x AKJxx AKQxxx after 3H 4N p 5C p 4N shows the minors, and later bidding 5S does not undo that. In my partnership, 4 hearts shows the minors, well any 2-suiter and I will get that across after removing a 4 spade bid. Same thing over 3S when I bid 4S. 4N is straight old fashioned Blackwood and that's what I would gamble here. If pard shows one, I would close my eyes and bid slam though. Too many ways and too much time to dispose of a couple of diamond losers to put pard under the pressure of the final decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pict Posted March 3, 2010 Report Share Posted March 3, 2010 4NT Ace asking. If not allowed to play that, flip a coin - heads 4, tails 6. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhantomSac Posted March 3, 2010 Report Share Posted March 3, 2010 Hmm if I didn't play 4N as minors I would play it as natural probably, 4N ace asking seems very weird. Does it ever come up? 4H showing any 2 suits seems like it would hinder your slam bidding a lot, for the gain of ace asking it doesn't seem worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggwhiz Posted March 3, 2010 Report Share Posted March 3, 2010 All of these are extreemely rare but we are more comfortable with gambling on a way to get rid of 2 little diamonds (on this example) than not being able to ask pard for aces. Many of the 2-suiters can pick which way to go, ie. xx, - , AKQxx, AKQJxx can bid 4H over 3H and take their best guess. I like a non-spade lead if we can get pard on play. x, x, AKJxx, AKQJxx can ask for aces and shoot 6C if they find one and/or feel like it. Or they can cue 4H and park it in 5 of their best minor suit fit with a card (Q of clubs?) less. ps. What does 4H show otherwise? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhantomSac Posted March 3, 2010 Report Share Posted March 3, 2010 ps. What does 4H show otherwise? Spades + minor with 4N = C+D is quite normal over 3H AFAIK**. I don't think 4H S+minor is unusual/rare at all. Minors is less common but also not rare. **Yes I'm aware some people play NLM! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted March 3, 2010 Report Share Posted March 3, 2010 4NT then 5♠ this should be the invitatinal. So how do you bid A x AKJxx AKQxxx after 3H 4N p 5C p ? 4N shows the minors, and later bidding 5S does not undo that. want the same argument for ♠AKQ10xxxx ♥Qx ♦AKQ ♣-? 5♠ shows lack of heart control you cannot undo that lol. Just for the reconrd, I have no agreements on what 4NT+5♠ shows, but I beleive partner won't have many difficulties figuring out even if I can have both hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhantomSac Posted March 3, 2010 Report Share Posted March 3, 2010 5♠ shows lack of heart control you cannot undo that lol. well I guess it must be true then! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted March 3, 2010 Report Share Posted March 3, 2010 Something doesn't feel right. I think I'm going passive with 4-only-spades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggwhiz Posted March 3, 2010 Report Share Posted March 3, 2010 You are boxed in with big hands like these period and some gambling is usually required. Just pick your poison and be happy they don't happen very often. Any agreement(ish) does the job fine. You can call it a "system" fix, survive the post-mortem and pick up some 4 triple 10 counts to restore your sanity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kfay Posted March 3, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2010 ps. What does 4H show otherwise? Spades + minor with 4N = C+D is quite normal over 3H AFAIK**. I don't think 4H S+minor is unusual/rare at all. Minors is less common but also not rare. **Yes I'm aware some people play NLM! Have this agreement also but just occurred to me that I haven't discussed 4NT over 4♥... I assume it must be natural. Agree? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted March 3, 2010 Report Share Posted March 3, 2010 I would take 3H-4H-p-4NT 100% as asking for my minor, IDK, I am quite simplistic here maybe.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted March 3, 2010 Report Share Posted March 3, 2010 What does a direct 5♥ show? I think it should be this hand, so that 5♠ can deny a heart control. Regarding continuations after 4NT-5m, 5♥ is a grand-slam try for the minor with first-round heart control, so wouldn't 5NT cover all your other grand-slam tries? You can hardly be missing another ace in addition to not having heart control. The trouble with these sequences where they preempt and we have a slam try is that every sequence is different, and they rarely come up, so it's really hard to identify commonalities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted March 4, 2010 Report Share Posted March 4, 2010 5♠ shows lack of heart control you cannot undo that lol. well I guess it must be true then! I was afraid of being biased here, since I have a tendency of saying the contrary of you when you say its "obv", so I asked dad (my usual partner), he said 5♠ was asking for heart control (pretty much my example), but he also said 4NT+5♠ was absurd :). He says with the hand given you have to just guess between 4♠ and 6♠, and 4♠ it is for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted March 4, 2010 Report Share Posted March 4, 2010 Of course you don't want to go crazy with the definitions here because it's so rare. I mean in theory I would probably do something like make 5♥ and 5♠ both be this hand but one asking for help in clubs and one in diamonds, after all having a very strong hand with a hole in a minor like we actually do seems much more likely than 11 solid tricks outside hearts. But we have to be a little practical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerclee Posted March 4, 2010 Report Share Posted March 4, 2010 What does a direct 5♥ show? I think it should be this hand, so that 5♠ can deny a heart control. As long as we're talking about theory I would definitely swap 5H and 5S so that 5H does not show a heart control and 5S does. This is to stop you from being forced to play 6N opp Kx. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmilne Posted March 4, 2010 Report Share Posted March 4, 2010 5♠, 4NT is not "minors or something else" because LHO can still bid. It would be dumb if we bid 4NT planning on masterminding the auction later and a) LHO bid 5♥+ or :) partner bid 6m+. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhantomSac Posted March 4, 2010 Report Share Posted March 4, 2010 Regarding continuations after 4NT-5m, 5♥ is a grand-slam try for the minor with first-round heart control, so wouldn't 5NT cover all your other grand-slam tries? You can hardly be missing another ace in addition to not having heart control. 5N to me is trying to get back to diamonds. You could be 7-5 for instance and have to bid 4N, then when partner bids 5C 5D is NF, and 6D goes past clubs, so 5N is def just tryin to get to diamonds. Good point about a 5H overcall, it should mean something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.