Splinter Bids

[DrDouble]

I understand why Splinters are useful for ascertaining slam possibilities. But why is there an upper limit for the points count - about 16 for responder. Similarly I don't understand why there is a limit for a trump fit (4) which is give in most Internet sources. Lastly I can't understand that you need a 9 card fit as responder but you can bid on an 8 card fit with your 4 as opener. I am limiting my discussion to major suits only. Can someone explain this?

 

:unsure:

[mich-b]

I understand why Splinters are useful for ascertaining slam possibilities.  But why is there an upper limit for the points count - about 16 for responder. 

You can splinter with stronger hands too , but you will probably have to bid again if partner signs off. If you don't want to bid above game level opposite a signoff , you may need a different approach.

 

Similarly I don't understand why there is a limit for a trump fit (4) which is give in most Internet sources.

You can certainly splinter with 5 or 6 card trump support.

 

Lastly I can't understand that you need a 9 card fit as responder but you can bid on an 8 card fit with your 4 as opener. 

What matters is that the partner of the Splinter bidder knows exactly how many trumps his side has so he can evaluate Slam prospects. Splinters are ok with an 8 card fit, as long as you know this is an 8 card fit. The 4th trump in dummy is very important and even more so when there is a singleton there.

[DrDouble]

Tx. - a very informative reply.

:D

[peachy]

Splinter can be an unlimited hand, but before you splinter, be sure to know whether you will Pass or go on after partner signs off. If you don't know whether to go on or to accept sign-off, you might use another auction sequence instead and not use so much room. Some play split-level splinters, either game only, or direct slam prospects.

 

The weaker your hand, the more important to have 4 or more card trump support (9 total).

[fromageGB]

I understand why Splinters are useful for ascertaining slam possibilities. But why is there an upper limit for the points count - about 16 for responder.

I would have said myself that the top limit is considerably lower, probably more like a 12 count. The problem with having an unusually strong hand is that you are contradicting yourself. By making a splinter you are describing your hand so that opener can make a judgement as to where to go. If your range is huge, how can opener make a decision? You have to make it yourself, so there is no point in making a splinter.

 

With a stronger hand, it is probably better to start with an artificial bid such as 2NT. Now opener can describe his hand so that you are in a better position to make the judgement.

[fromageGB]

Lastly I can't understand that you need a 9 card fit as responder

Certainly it is a help if opener can be sure that you have 4 trumps, as he can then plan on ruffing in your short suit.   But there is another reason to have 4 - if you only have 3 card support, you must have a 5 card suit you can make a 2 over 1 or other natural bid with.   Then when you follow with trump support, cue bidding enables either side to determine how many tricks the side suit is worth, and you also show the control in your shortage suit.   (Opener does NOT cue bid a shortage in your long suit)  Much more information is conveyed than would be by making an initial splinter.

[blackshoe]

Opposite 1♥/♠: 3♦/♥ shows 4 trumps, a shortage somewhere (3M asks) and a good 9 to a bad 12 HCP. 3♠/NT shows 4 trumps, a shortage somewhere (next step asks) and a good 12 to a bad 15 HCP. With more HCP, start with 2NT (Jacoby). With the weaker splinter, you have room to differentiate between a singleton and a void without going past game. All these initial responses are forcing to game.

[CSGibson]

Opposite 1♥/♠: 3♦/♥ shows 4 trumps, a shortage somewhere (3M asks) and a good 9 to a bad 12 HCP. 3♠/NT shows 4 trumps, a shortage somewhere (next step asks) and a good 12 to a bad 15 HCP. With more HCP, start with 2NT (Jacoby). With the weaker splinter, you have room to differentiate between a singleton and a void without going past game. All these initial responses are forcing to game.

Just noting - this is definitely not standard in the USA, without debating the merits of that agreement at all.

[campboy]

Yes, what is important is not the total trump fit -- eight is fine -- but how many trumps you have. If you only have three then your singleton is not full value, especially on a trump lead. I will splinter on essentially the same hands playing 4-card majors as I would playing 5-card majors.

 

Personally, I play splinters as normally limited to about 14, but might also start with a splinter with a much stronger hand which is willing to force to the 5-level. Basically, you have to know what to do if partner signs off (normally pass), and there is a gap in the middle where you don't. Exactly what the upper limit for a "normal" splinter is isn't so important; what matters is that it shouldn't be more than about 4 points better than the lower limit, whatever you play that as.

[mohitz]

I was going through old forum posts recently. Thought this thread might be of help

 

http://forums.bridgebase.com/index.php?showtopic=12157&hl=

[kfay]

Having a general upper bound is good b/c partner can look at his hand and say 'I have no wastage, and good controls... wow we might have a low-HCP slam!!'

 

If you can have 1000 HCP then wastage may be unimportant, so you can't accurately ascertain slam possibilities as partner of the splinterer.

[PhantomSac]

I was going through old forum posts recently. Thought this thread might be of help

 

http://forums.bridgebase.com/index.php?showtopic=12157&hl=

Wow fred made one of the best posts I've ever seen on this forum in this thread, would reccommend people check it out if they want.