the hog Posted July 21, 2004 Report Share Posted July 21, 2004 "I do think that this is an anti field bid, but the field is much more likely to be wrong than right here. " Agree with this. Another minus, Mike, is that your hand is aceless. Incidentally opening the original hand 2D in fourth seat is nuts.A 4th seat 2D opening resembles something like: xxKxAKJxxxxAx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flame Posted July 21, 2004 Report Share Posted July 21, 2004 Funny how everybody has different opinions on this... LOL. I dont agree, this was one of the esiest questions on the furum and almost everyone agreed its a simple 1D, considering pass at 4th seat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted July 21, 2004 Report Share Posted July 21, 2004 ~snip~Opening 2D should be enough to keep them out of their spades. ~snip~ I don't know in what kind of field you play, but playing at an advanced+ level, they WILL find their ♠ fit after a 2♦ opening. I don't see what the big difficulty is after a 2-level opener anyway. Weak-two's in ♦ or ♥ never stopped me to find my ♠s... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted July 21, 2004 Report Share Posted July 21, 2004 You give experts too much credit... if they didn't manage to scrap up a spade bid at the 1 level and undisturbed, chances are they'll have even more trouble doing it at the 2 level and after a solid preempt. I'd be more worried if E/W were weak players who didn't open 1S because they "didn't have 12 points". They might now recklessly bid spades on 10 their counts and, lo and behold, they'd be right! As for passing out in 4th seat... let's give pard his most likely shape and count. He rates to be 9-10 pts, and hold a 5323, 4423 or 4324. Possible hands QJxxx Axx xx Kxx KTxx KJxx xx Kxx AJxx xxx xx Axxx you have good chances to make 2D on any of these. And if opps bid to 2 or 3 spades, they'll probably go down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted July 21, 2004 Report Share Posted July 21, 2004 Why does he have 4 ♠s?? Can't your opps have 9 ♠s together? Or even 10? What if p has: Kxx KJxxx xx Kxx (2♠ or 3♠ easy)Ax KJxx xxx Jxxx (4♠ makable with stiff or void ♦) I can give you thousands of examples where you're right, but I can give you thousands of examples where you're wrong as well friend :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted July 21, 2004 Report Share Posted July 21, 2004 I said: let's give pard his most likely shape and count Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cascade Posted July 21, 2004 Report Share Posted July 21, 2004 As for passing out in 4th seat... let's give pard his most likely shape and count. He rates to be 9-10 pts, and hold a 5323, 4423 or 4324. Possible hands These most likely shapes only account for a small fraction of the possible shapes: These are the 11 most likely shapes and there frequencies. 4 3 2 4 0.0322507124 4 2 3 0.0322507124 3 3 3 0.0307149635 3 2 3 0.0294863653 4 2 4 0.0250838873 4 3 3 0.0238894163 3 3 4 0.0238894164 4 3 2 0.0201566954 2 3 4 0.0201566955 4 2 2 0.0193504275 2 2 4 0.019350427 In total these represent less than 28% of all of partner's distributions when you hold this hand. The three you mention actually rank 1st, 2nd and 4th and make up less than 10% of the hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted July 22, 2004 Report Share Posted July 22, 2004 That's neat info. Thx! The more worrisome case is the 3424. Pard may not want to compete to the 3 level, and they have a 9-card spade fit. But that's only one case out of many, many cases which turn out ok for our side, meaning either we can push to 3D with safety, or set them in 2/3 spades. Note: I believe there's more than 28% chance for those distributions, because if pard has a 6 or 7 card suit, he would probably have opened the bidding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted July 22, 2004 Report Share Posted July 22, 2004 The problem with opening 2D in 4th seat is that the most likely scenario is that your partner thinks you have your bid and bids 3N on a scattered 8/9 count with a D fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted July 22, 2004 Report Share Posted July 22, 2004 I understand that. But he can bid 2NT to find out how good my 4th seat 2D opening is. Unless he's desperate for points, he doesn't need to just dive into 3NT :blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PriorKnowledge Posted July 23, 2004 Report Share Posted July 23, 2004 1st, 2nd, 3rd - 1D - not even close. I use old point count and open any 13 or 12 hcp. 11hcp + 2 = 134th - pass. Use rule of 15 11+1s = 12.... if Qxx x AKxxxx Qxx in 4th, Open 1D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antoine Fourrière Posted July 25, 2004 Report Share Posted July 25, 2004 To me, that diamond one-suiter looks more like a 3♦ opening (or an equivalent). As a rule of thumb with minor one-suiters, I count 4-3-2-1 in the long suit, 3-2-1-0.5 in the other three suits and 1 for a seventh card,. Then I open at the three level if I have between 7 and 9 of these "mixed" points. Granted, 3♦ would be more clear-cut without the ♥10 and the ♦10-9, but there are many spades outside. Pass or 3♦ in fourth seat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trpltrbl Posted July 26, 2004 Report Share Posted July 26, 2004 1♦ in first seat.2♦ in 4th seat, if I am playing weak NT, otherwise I either pass or open 3♦.Depends on state of match and if it is a midnite game. Don't play midnites to pass anything out. Mike :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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