Who might have done better?

[paulg]

[hv=d=w&v=b&w=sakxhxdtxxcajtxxx&e=sjxhkxxdaqjxxckxx]266|100|Scoring: IMP

1♣ (Pass) 1♦ (Double)

2♣ (Pass) 2♥ (Pass)

3♦ (Pass) 3♠ (Pass)

3NT (all pass)

 

Lead; ♥10

 

Five heart tricks later ...[/hv]

I don't normally do assign the blame, but who could have done better or is it just the rub of the green?

[ONEferBRID]

Responder has to realize from the bidding that partner can't have many cards in Hts. Since Responder didn't bid NT, he has to go past 3NT in his suit... probably 5D. Looks like it will make 6 with a little luck.

[NickRW]

Hmm. Well you might play it something like 1♣ - 1♠ (showing 5♦) - 2♦ - 3♣. Then 3♠ allows resp to bid 3N - at least the damn thing is right sided after that - though it is really quite questionable whether opener wants to be in 3N after hearing about a double minor fit.

 

Nick

[Jlall]

edit

[Pict]

Seems a pity if opener can't bid 2S after the responder reverse.

[nigel_k]

Prefer 2♠ to 3♦. Give responder room to clarify their 2♥ bid. You would like to show support but the most likely fit is clubs and 3♦ goes past that, you might still get to bid 3♦ later, and three to the ten is not great support anyway. It could even be a negative if responder has AKxxx in diamonds and slam interest in clubs.

[mike777]

[hv=d=w&v=b&w=sakxhxdtxxcajtxxx&e=sjxhkxxdaqjxxckxx]266|100|Scoring: IMP

1♣ (Pass) 1♦ (Double)

2♣ (Pass) 2♥ (Pass)

3♦ (Pass) 3♠ (Pass)

3NT (all pass)

 

Lead; ♥10

 

Five heart tricks later ...[/hv]

I don't normally do assign the blame, but who could have done better or is it just the rub of the green?

I would have bid a simple 4c over 2c at imps.

End up in 5c after missing two keys.

[aguahombre]

Mike: how did you intend 4C? If it was minorwood, I object with JX of spades. aside from that, there are six keys on this hand.

[mike777]

Mike: how did you intend 4C? If it was minorwood, I object with JX of spades. aside from that, there are six keys on this hand.

4c....clubs game forcing...not rkc.

 

 

 

4d now will be rkc.

[whereagles]

I guess East didn't bid 3♥ (instead of 3♠) because he as afraid pard would take it as a red 6-5... oops.

 

Anyway, I have some sympathy for East's auction, but why make heavy weather out of the bidding? Just shoot 3NT over 2♣.

[pooltuna]

[hv=d=w&v=b&w=sakxhxdtxxcajtxxx&e=sjxhkxxdaqjxxckxx]266|100|Scoring: IMP

1♣ (Pass) 1♦ (Double)

2♣ (Pass) 2♥ (Pass)

3♦ (Pass) 3♠ (Pass)

3NT (all pass)

 

Lead; ♥10

 

Five heart tricks later ...[/hv]

I don't normally do assign the blame, but who could have done better or is it just the rub of the green?

75+% west he doesn't want to be declarer with a stiff ♥ bid 2♠ this can't be a suit. 25% east sometimes you just have to grab the bull by the horns over 2♣ just bid 2NT or 3NT whichever is system appropriate.

[paulg]

Is there a slight problem with 2♠, which is 4th suit, in that it must show some doubt over a subsequent 3NT and partner will think that the issue is spades?

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

East?

 

Sry, I dont like 2H.

 

East has a bal. hand, but sells it as 5-4, East knowes, that

the heart stopper is positioanl at best, but asks for a spade

stopper.

 

Now - I dont suggest, that there is a better auction, but if I have

to blame someone, it is East.

The normal bid over 2C is 2NT or 3NT, whatever the system bid

may be.

East wanted to be scientific, which is ok, so he invented a suit,

that backfired, but because East went creative, he also takes the

blame, of course, he would also get the praise, if it did work out.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[P_Marlowe]

[hv=d=w&v=b&w=sakxhxdtxxcajtxxx&e=sjxhkxxdaqjxxckxx]266|100|Scoring: IMP

1♣ (Pass) 1♦ (Double)

2♣ (Pass) 2♥ (Pass)

3♦ (Pass) 3♠ (Pass)

3NT (all pass)

 

Lead; ♥10

 

Five heart tricks later ...[/hv]

I don't normally do assign the blame, but who could have done better or is it just the rub of the green?

75+% west he doesn't want to be declarer with a stiff ♥ bid 2♠ this can't be a suit. 25% east sometimes you just have to grab the bull by the horns over 2♣ just bid 2NT or 3NT whichever is system appropriate.

Sry - 2S?

 

West knowes, the partnership has a fit, and now West tells East about this,

live is easy, you found a fit, ok the fit is only in a minor, but obviously you

dont have a major suit fit, tell p the good news.

 

Any other bid besides 3D is just garbage. Besides, raising p suit is certainly

not a strong attempt to be declarer.

 

There are days, East is interested in investigating slam - assuming the partnership

has a fit and than East will be happy to hear this information.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[Fluffy]

I know I'd play the same contract, if inspired, 2♠ might lead to rightsiding it, but I think I'd end up on the same thing.

[gnasher]

After 3♦, I think East should insist on diamonds. 3♦ showed real diamond support, because opener could have bid either 2NT or 2♠. It's hard to construct a hand where opener has a heart bolster, a spade stop, and nine tricks, and 5♦ isn't also making. Kx Qx xxx AQxxxx would probably rebid 2NT rather than 3♦.

 

Another way of looking at it: what would East have done with xx KQxx AJxx Kxx? He'd have bid exactly as he did, expecting West to bid 3NT on any hand with a spade stop. I don't think it works to bid such different hands the same way.

[rhm]

[hv=d=w&v=b&w=sakxhxdtxxcajtxxx&e=sjxhkxxdaqjxxckxx]266|100|Scoring: IMP

1♣ (Pass) 1♦ (Double)

2♣ (Pass) 2♥ (Pass)

3♦ (Pass) 3♠ (Pass)

3NT (all pass)

 

Lead; ♥10

 

Five heart tricks later ...[/hv]

I don't normally do assign the blame, but who could have done better or is it just the rub of the green?

I think the major error was the 3♠ bid. Just because you can ask does not mean you should.

If 3NT was a possible contract, East can see that it might be crucial to play 3NT from his side. He should have prefered 3NT to 3♠

After East rebid 2♥, West should not pass 3NT with a broken ♣ suit and nothing in ♠. So West will let 3NT stand only with something in ♠

 

Rainer Herrmann

[Cyberyeti]

We'd bid this:

 

1♣-1♦(X)

2♣(will have 6, as no other 4 card suit and not a weak NT)-2♦(relay)

2N(minimum ish, 3♦)-3♣

3♠-? now responder has a choice of 3N from the right side or bidding on in a minor

[cherdanno]

After 3♦, I think East should insist on diamonds. 3♦ showed real diamond support, because opener could have bid either 2NT or 2♠. It's hard to construct a hand where opener has a heart bolster, a spade stop, and nine tricks, and 5♦ isn't also making. Kx Qx xxx AQxxxx would probably rebid 2NT rather than 3♦.

 

Another way of looking at it: what would East have done with xx KQxx AJxx Kxx? He'd have bid exactly as he did, expecting West to bid 3NT on any hand with a spade stop. I don't think it works to bid such different hands the same way.

I agree with all of this.

[mike777]

 

Another way of looking at it: what would East have done with xx KQxx AJxx Kxx?  He'd have bid exactly as he did, expecting West to bid 3NT on any hand with a spade stop.  I don't think it works to bid such different hands the same way.

With that east example hand I start with 1h not 1d.

 

After 2c then 3c by east.

[Jlall]

Another way of looking at it: what would East have done with xx KQxx AJxx Kxx? He'd have bid exactly as he did, expecting West to bid 3NT on any hand with a spade stop. I don't think it works to bid such different hands the same way.

I think if playing walsh style bidding 1D with this hand is a mistake, and will actually cause you to lose room as well as leak information more often.

 

For example after 1C 1H 1N you can just bid 3N. After 1C 1D 1N you will have to check back for a heart fit.

 

After 1C 1red 2C, you'd rather have started with 1H, as you can now bid 2D, and if partner bids 2H you can bid 3C and you are off to a good start and are lower than you would be after 1C 1D 2C 2H.

 

Also it will be easier to get to a 4-3 heart fit if necessary having started with 1H, though it could be possible even if you start with 1D it will be less straightforward, especially since a later heart bid by you might just be third suit forcing.

 

There are some deals where partner is something like 2245 especially that 5D might be better than 3N when we have no spade stopper, but even then the best I can come up with is something like xx Ax KQxx AJxxx which is close to a 1N opener... anything weaker like taking away the CJ and we'd be better off hoping they don't lead a spade vs 3N since 5D is no play. IMO it's a narrow target, and it's worth paying off to in order to just be able to bid 1C 1H 1N 3N a lot or 1C 1H 2H *whatever ask* 4H.

[Jlall]

All that said I agree with the basic premise that when partner shows 3-6 in the minors, and you're loaded in the minors with a double fit, you should play in a minor.

[quiddity]

Assuming 2H was game-forcing (and since it was a reverse I think it should be), I would bid 2N with the west hand. Spades are well-stopped; why highlight a bad 3-card diamond holding? And yet the bid would probably wrong-side 3NT since the stoppers are not positional - is this a big enough reason to prefer 3D?

[PhantomSac]

Assuming 2H was game-forcing (and since it was a reverse I think it should be), I would bid 2N with the west hand. Spades are well-stopped; why highlight a bad 3-card diamond holding? And yet the bid would probably wrong-side 3NT since the stoppers are not positional - is this a big enough reason to prefer 3D?

You have 3 card support, a stiff, and AK A for partner. You have no positional values at all, and a great hand for 5 or 6 diamonds.

 

I mean seriously look at this hand. 5 of a minor is excellent. 3N from your side is basically a disaster especially vs non bad opps who are likely to try to lead a heart through on this auction. Partners hand is really normal. That should say something. I think it is really poor to suppress your support here in order to grab NT.

[quiddity]

well.. ok.

Maybe it's a mis-evaluation but I don't see this hand as being great for 5 or 6 diamonds. Partner is likely to have waste in hearts, we're likely to have waste in the black suits, and our trumps suck.

 

Also, I don't think partner's hand is really normal. He has 3 card support (to the K!) for our 6-card minor, and just Kxx in hearts. He would almost certainly bid 3C over 2N, we would bid 3D and we might still reach our minor suit contract. Meanwhile it doesn't seem likely that we can get him to bid NT when it's right, given our spade holding.