What's standard here

[Lobowolf]

1♦-1♠;

2♦-3♥

 

In my regular partnerships, I play this as a splinter (1 level higher than a forcing bid in hearts). Is it standard to have 2♥ and 3♥ both be heart raises? Is there an "expert standard" and "acbl standard" distinction here?

[Jlall]

I have no idea what is standard. When I learned bridge I think standard was 5-5 invite in the majors on the basis that forcing would bid 2H then 3H. It seems like less people play it this way now so I dunno, I still like that treatement.

[Stephen Tu]

Hmm, I learned the opposite of what Justin said as standard (direct jump GF, bid then rebid as inv). FWIW Bridge world standard is still how I learned.

[rogerclee]

Count me in as another who has no idea what's standard. I like splinter but 5-5 majors invite and 5-5 majors game forcing are all reasonable to me. Playing that they're game forcing allows you to have better auctions on hands like:

 

AKxxx

AQx

xxx

xx

 

1D-1S

2D-2H

3D-?

[rogerclee]

then rebid as inv

Weird, for me I would always assume 2H = art GF in a pickup partnership.

[fred]

I also have no idea what is standard, but I have played 3H as 5-5 invitational for as long as I can remember.

 

For those of you who enjoy learning esoteric, hard-to-remember, likely-disaster-when-you-forget, gain-a-small-edge-every-1000-hands sort of conventions, try this...

 

After:

 

1D 1S

2D 2H

 

Reverse the (natural) meanings of 3C and 3H.

 

Fred Gitelman

Bridge Base Inc.

www.bridgebase.com

[jdonn]

This auction is on the list of those that really scare me with a pickup partner! I think in practice I see it about equally often as a splinter and as natural, and even then could be invitational or forcing. Glad to see most play it as 5-5 inv since at least I'll use that as a basis of what to expect next time.

[Stephen Tu]

then rebid as inv

Weird, for me I would always assume 2H = art GF in a pickup partnership.

I think 2h = art GF is weird, I would always assume semi-natural inv+, F1R.

 

What books are teaching the 2h = art. GF treatment?

[Jlall]

Hmm, I learned the opposite of what Justin said as standard (direct jump GF, bid then rebid as inv). FWIW Bridge world standard is still how I learned.

Interesting, curious what others say, but BWS is a good indication that your way is more normal.

[karlson]

I think 5-5 GF is std, but I've found that in general there is very little agreement about standard after 1m-1M-2m.

 

Count me in as liking 2♥ as only inv+ also.

[inquiry]

I would assume "standard" is forcing. I base this on Goren Bridge Complete which says after opener rebids his suit, a jump in a new suit by responder is forcing one round. Note, I do not think this is the best treatment.

 

I also note that a lot of people (NOT ME) play 1D=1S=2D-2H as nonforcing (which is clearly wrong).

 

I took a quick look at some bridgebrowser data (I hereby remove my previous restriction not to mention this program, since homebase, sadly seems totally dead and I am in no way associated with this program in any sort of arrangement)..... I found 505 hands with this aucton (1D-1S; 2D-3H).. here is what a found

 

5.9% of the 3H bidders had 4 card suit, the remainder 5+ suit

 

The hcp for the 3H bidders were

 

6-8 hcp = 1.2%

9-10 hcp = 5.9%

11-12 hcp = 23.6%

13-14 hcp = 37.6%

15+ hcp = 31.7%

 

If we consider 13+ game force hand, it seems the "standard" is this is 5+ and GF.

[ONEferBRID]

1D - 1S

2D - 2H! ( cheapest-new-suit-forcing, akin to NMF over 1NT rebid but not as "pure"; may be artificial; not universally accepted as standard )

 

1D - 1S

2D - 2H!

2S/2NT - 3H/3C= GF

 

whereas:

1D - 1S

2D - 3H-jump/3C = invite

[arigreen]

I took a quick look at some bridgebrowser data (I hereby remove my previous restriction not to mention this program, since homebase, sadly seems totally dead and I am in no way associated with this program in any sort of arrangement)..... I found 505 hands with this aucton (1D-1S; 2D-3H).. here is what a found

 

5.9% of the 3H bidders had 4 card suit, the remainder 5+ suit

Wow, I am shocked that 0 out of 505 people bid this way with a splinter. Are you sure this is accurate? 3♥ splinter is not my preferred treatment, but every time this auction comes up undiscussed it at least crosses my mind that partner may have thought it was a splinter. I guess if I've learned anything from this thread it is that I shouldn't be so paranoid about that possibility anymore.

[gnasher]

I think 3♥ as a splinter is more or less the default where I come from.

 

Putting all the heart hands into 2♥ usually works out OK: with an invitational 5-5 you bid 2♥ followed by 3♥ over 2♠ or 2NT; with an game-forcing 5-5 you bid 2♥ followed by fourth-suit forcing.

 

The only obvious flaw in that is that partner may rebid 3♦ over 2♥. If he does, 3♥ is probably best played as forcing. The 3♦ bid limits his strength so much that issuing an invitation seems fairly pointless.

[whereagles]

I also have no idea what is standard, but I have played 3H as 5-5 invitational for as long as I can remember.

in french standard, I believe this is a game forcing 55