How high to raise

[eyhung]

Matchpoints, decent opponents, neither vul

 

[hv=d=n&v=n&s=sjt72hat6d96543c5]133|100|Scoring: MP[/hv]

 

1♦ 1♠

2♣ ?

 

Is this hand worth 3♦ with a plan to pull to 4♦ if partner bids 3NT? Or is this worth just a gentle 2♦?

 

EDIT: We don't bid this way with 4 diamonds and 5 clubs.

[pooltuna]

Matchpoints, decent opponents, neither vul

 

Dealer: North Vul: None Scoring: MP

♠ JT72 ♥ AT6 ♦ 96543 ♣ 5

 

1♦  1♠

2♣  ?

 

Is this hand worth 3♦ with a plan to pull to 4♦ if partner bids 3NT?  Or is this worth just a gentle 2♦?

I would treat it as a limit raise and as such call 3♦

 

EDIT: my initial response assumed you restricted your auctions like this to promising 5♦ if you could bid this way the same with 4♦ and 5♣ then I would settle for 2♦

[Jlall]

I definitely prefer 2D. By bidding 3D, you are saying that you want to be in game opposite many of the "max" hands that will pass a 2D preference. IMO for game to be good we'll need him to have a hand good enough to bid over 2D.

 

Also it's MP so getting too high and going down 1 is very costly.

 

I mean yeah it's god several very nice features, 5 trumps, a stiff, an ace, JT T in the majors could have some use, but at the end of the day it's a 5 count and we're talking about playing 5 of a minor, we just need more wood imo.

[Little Kid]

2♦. Partner can still move over 2♦ with 15-17, if he doesn't I'm happy in 2♦.

[eyhung]

The issue is that there are non 15-17s that will not move over 2♦ that make game reasonable. Any controls besides the Club King are what's needed, not the KQ of clubs or jacks.

 

x Kx AKxxx Axxxx (the prime perfecto!)

 

void QJxx KQxxx Axxx

 

are examples of hands that offer good play for game.

 

Anyway given the power of the likely 10-card trump fit, the side ace, and the right singleton, I was thinking there don't seem to be as many -1 hands (or if we do, the opponent can make a major partial) as hands where we could reach a good game opposite a pass of 2♦. But I can definitely respect 2♦ -- it's the normal bid. Just wondering whether 3♦ is a good upgrade here.

[jdonn]

2♦ just seems normal to me. When you play partner for perfect hands...

[MFA]

I bid 3♦ for sure. This hand has adequate playing strength for diamonds, so I refuse to be a bean counter. I would not be happy in 2♦. I would be very anxious that partner will take 11 or 12 tricks with hands where he would have expected 2♦ to be in danger before seing dummy. -, Kxx, Axxxx, Axxxx is a decent perfecto slam.

[olliebol]

If you bid 3♦ with this you are going to end up in 5♦ very often because i would not be passing 3nt. It seems excessive to me

[arigreen]

If you bid 3♦ with this you are going to end up in 5♦ very often because i would not be passing 3nt. It seems excessive to me

Or you might end up in 4♦. If partner bids 3N and you pull to 4♦, shouldn't it show a hand like this? Perhaps a bit stronger, but it should be a hand with few high card points but excellent playing strength for diamonds. Partner should be well positioned to pass or bid 5♦ depending on his hand.

 

For example, x.KQx.KQxxx.KQxx will pass and partner will have good play for 4♦. This assumes that partner would not expect you to bid only 4♦ holding two aces.

 

x.KQx.KQxxx.AQxx will raise to 5♦.

 

Maybe my assumptions are flawed, but it seems to me that if partner has 5 diamonds and bids 3N, we are usually safe at the 4-level, and safe at the 5 level if he raises.

 

BTW my first reaction to this problem was that 2♦ was clear, but the more I think of it, the more I like 3♦, planning to pull 3N to 4♦.

[aguahombre]

2D--unless 3D is defined as a preempt after a simple response, extending 4SF to invites. And I don't like that idea, either.

[nigel_k]

I think you have to bid 2♦ because 3♦ is a different hand. Thought it doesn't feel right and if it wasn't matchpoints then 3♦ and pull 3NT to 4♦ might be ok.

 

We would be in a better position if we had raised diamonds immediately. Our current problem was easily foreseeable and bidding 1♠ could also have let opponents enter the auction too cheaply.

[whereagles]

It's an easy 3♦ bid for me. If pard now bids 3NT it might very well go down, but I think it's worth the risk. If pard has, say

 

x

KJx

AKxxx

Axxx

 

he'll probably bid 3♥ over my 3♦ and we get to 5/6♦, while he could have passed 2♦ had I bid that.