TIK ToK

[karlis_ooo]

[hv=d=w&v=n&s=shakxxdkxxcakqxxx]133|100|Scoring: IMP

[P]-P-[1♥]-???[/hv]

 

 

[hv=d=w&v=n&s=shakxxdkxxcakqxxx]133|100|Scoring: IMP

[P]-P-[1♥]-???[/hv]

 

Edited: on 2nd RHO bids 1N , showing 7-10 with ♥ support.

[helene_t]

3NT

 

1♠ I think. Oops missed the 1NT call. I think 2♠ is ok, a stronger hand could have doubled 1NT. Maybe I should pass if not having discussed this, p might take me for more values in case he has a strong hand with short spades.

[pooltuna]

[hv=d=w&v=n&s=shakxxdkxxcakqxxx]133|100|Scoring: IMP

[P]-P-[1♥]-???[/hv]

 

 

[hv=d=w&v=n&s=shakxxdkxxcakqxxx]133|100|Scoring: IMP

[P]-P-[1♥]-???[/hv]

 

Edited: on 2nd RHO bids 1N , showing 7-10 with ♥ support.

1.) yes I TOX

2.) yes I bid 2♠ but pass partner's 3♣ call

[andy_h]

Double and 2♠.

[hanp]

What you cannot do is freely bid 2S and then pass partner's forcing 3C call.

[1eyedjack]

What you cannot do is freely bid 2S and then pass partner's forcing 3C call.

Looks like a good reason for making 3♣ non-forcing. I very much dislike being required to pass rather than 2♠ for fear of hearing a forcing 3♣. That said, I think I would probably want to force with that strong hand. And get too high and go down.

[pooltuna]

What you cannot do is freely bid 2S and then pass partner's forcing 3C call.

sorry but it is not forcing unless by previous discussion

[peachy]

What you cannot do is freely bid 2S and then pass partner's forcing 3C call.

sorry but it is not forcing unless by previous discussion

I would phrase it the opposite. It is forcing in standard bridge. Non-forcing if so agreed (but why would anyone?).

[1eyedjack]

Non-forcing if so agreed (but why would anyone?).

Er, so as to enable the hand in the OP to be free to bid 2♠ without fear of being forced, perhaps? I don't think that the fact that he has made a free bid in this auction suggests any values.

 

Style, perhaps, but I think that doubler has a bit in reserve over and above the minimum requirement of a double followed by new suit.

[jdonn]

What you cannot do is freely bid 2S and then pass partner's forcing 3C call.

sorry but it is not forcing unless by previous discussion

Yes it is.

[1eyedjack]

What you cannot do is freely bid 2S and then pass partner's forcing 3C call.

sorry but it is not forcing unless by previous discussion

Yes it is.

Do you say that because partner has made a free bid (implying values)? Or do you say that in standard a double then new suit opposite someone who has made no promises is still forcing (say, in the absence of further intervening bids by oppo)?

[mich-b]

What you cannot do is freely bid 2S and then pass partner's forcing 3C call.

sorry but it is not forcing unless by previous discussion

Yes it is.

Do you say that because partner has made a free bid (implying values)? Or do you say that in standard a double then new suit opposite someone who has made no promises is still forcing?

Double then new suit opposite someone who has made no promises is not forcing.

Double then new suit opposite someone who has made a free bid is forcing.

This is how we play it.

 

And I think the ♠JTxxxx should not bid 2♠ , since that implies some values which may be useful to a partner, who has a "big double" of some sort, rather than a normal takeout double. Especially since the ♥showing 1NT response makes sure I get another chance to bid ♠s, and by the next round I will know if pd has a normal (or strong) takeout double, or some other big hand.

[1eyedjack]

seems to me that you risk 1N being passed out when doubler had a normal t/o double and we might have a 10 card spade fit.

 

If partner has a "normal" takeout double then my hand is quite strong, despite lack of high cards. If he has a "funny" takeout double then my hand becomes rather worthless.

[gnasher]

seems to me that you risk 1N being passed out when doubler had a normal t/o double and we might have a 10 card spade fit.

 

If partner has a "normal" takeout double then my hand is quite strong, despite lack of high cards. If he has a "funny" takeout double then my hand becomes rather worthless.

1♥ showed 7-10 with 3-card support, so it's not likely to be passed out.

 

I'd still bid 2♠ over 1NT. Opposite most "funny" takeout doubles my hand is still potentially valuable.

[1eyedjack]

1♥ showed 7-10 with 3-card support, so it's not likely to be passed out.

Not sure that that is a universal treatment, but even if it is I try wherever possible not to gear my methods to reliance on opponents helping us out.

[helene_t]

I bid 3♠ over 3♣ (what else?)

 

Is that forcing? I suppose not. This strong double would bid again, though.

[effervesce]

First hand I bid 3NT.

 

Second hand I pass.

If partner has a strong hand he can double again after which I'd be glad to bid 3♠ (or perhaps four if partner is a sound bidder). My problem with an 2♠ is that it's a 'free bid' so should have some values. It'll almost never be passed out in 1NT given their fit.

 

If partner has a minimum takeout double they will surely make 4♥ over which I'd be happy to sac 4♠ but I don't want to help them reach that in the first place.

If, in the unlikely event it goes (1♥)-X-(1NT)-p-(2♥)-p-p I can still bid 2♠.

[gnasher]

1♥ showed 7-10 with 3-card support, so it's not likely to be passed out.

Not sure that that is a universal treatment, but even if it is I try wherever possible not to gear my methods to reliance on opponents helping us out.

No, it's not a universal treatment. It is, however, what the original poster said that 1NT meant.

 

I don't think you should necessarily bid the same way over an artificial raise as you do over a natural 1NT.

[1eyedjack]

OK I missed that. Not convinced that it changes my decision to bid an immediate 2♠, though. There is no certainty that your next opportunity to bid will be at the 2 level if you pass now. If partner has a normal double the fits are pretty massive. Are we committed to introducing Spades at any level when it comes back? Perhaps we should be.

[jdonn]

What you cannot do is freely bid 2S and then pass partner's forcing 3C call.

sorry but it is not forcing unless by previous discussion

Yes it is.

Do you say that because partner has made a free bid (implying values)? Or do you say that in standard a double then new suit opposite someone who has made no promises is still forcing (say, in the absence of further intervening bids by oppo)?

We have made promises.

[pooltuna]

What you cannot do is freely bid 2S and then pass partner's forcing 3C call.

sorry but it is not forcing unless by previous discussion

Yes it is.

well if you are playing with me and you bid 3♣ you are playing it there. you have other calls to force with.

[jdonn]

But I don't want to play with someone who passes forcing bids :unsure:

[pooltuna]

But I don't want to play with someone who passes forcing bids :unsure:

then talk to me before hand and I won't pass :)

[peachy]

What you cannot do is freely bid 2S and then pass partner's forcing 3C call.

Looks like a good reason for making 3♣ non-forcing. I very much dislike being required to pass rather than 2♠ for fear of hearing a forcing 3♣. That said, I think I would probably want to force with that strong hand. And get too high and go down.

He is going to hear 3C whether he bid 2S or not, if takeout-doubler had the strong one-suiter in clubs.

[jdonn]

What you cannot do is freely bid 2S and then pass partner's forcing 3C call.

Looks like a good reason for making 3♣ non-forcing. I very much dislike being required to pass rather than 2♠ for fear of hearing a forcing 3♣. That said, I think I would probably want to force with that strong hand. And get too high and go down.

He is going to hear 3C whether he bid 2S or not, if takeout-doubler had the strong one-suiter in clubs.

Why won't he hear 2♣?