Echognome Posted February 12, 2010 Report Share Posted February 12, 2010 [hv=d=s&v=b&s=sthak74dakqt732c6]133|100|Scoring: IMP1♦ - (P) - 4♠ - (P);?[/hv] Anything to think about here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fromageGB Posted February 12, 2010 Report Share Posted February 12, 2010 Yes :) Like - what on earth does that mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted February 12, 2010 Report Share Posted February 12, 2010 Pass?! Partner has something like KQJTxxx of spades and out. Even if he has the ace we still have two heart losers to worry about playing in diamonds, and he certainly won't have solid spades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echognome Posted February 12, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2010 Pass?! Partner has something like KQJTxxx of spades and out. Even if he has the ace we still have two heart losers to worry about playing in diamonds, and he certainly won't have solid spades. Well he won't have the ♠T (as we have it), but you came pretty darn close to his actual holding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted February 12, 2010 Report Share Posted February 12, 2010 Amazing, partner made a really descriptive bid therefore I knew almost exactly what he had! ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echognome Posted February 12, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2010 Well, here is the link to the actual hand (don't look if you don't want a spoiler): http://www.bridgebase.com/tools/handviewer...2896-1265956183 As you can see, 5♦ is the place you want to be. So, the question is how do we think the other 3 suits might be distributed. For example, switch the length in the red suits and spades will play better (although both contracts will be off). Also, as I mentioned in the OP, maybe there's not much to think about after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matmat Posted February 12, 2010 Report Share Posted February 12, 2010 other table found 5D and felt very uncomfortable about its prospects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted February 12, 2010 Report Share Posted February 12, 2010 Even if partner's diamonds were xx instead of Jx then 5♦ would be down on a trump lead or switch. Obviously there is a danger here of them taking clubs if they get one round of trumps out, but we might have Qxx of clubs or something, we might have the spade ace, they might lead a heart, we might have a singleton or doubleton club. I still think it's silly to raise the level on a total guess, obviously diamonds is most likely to be partner's short suit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pooltuna Posted February 12, 2010 Report Share Posted February 12, 2010 [hv=d=s&v=b&s=sthak74dakqt732c6]133|100|Scoring: IMP1♦ - (P) - 4♠ - (P);?[/hv] Anything to think about here? nah just bid 6♠ maybe that will guarantee in the future that he holds the hand he is bidding (assuming he is not) :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhantomSac Posted February 13, 2010 Report Share Posted February 13, 2010 Really clear pass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awm Posted February 13, 2010 Report Share Posted February 13, 2010 Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems like a diamond lead beats 5♦? Declarer can ruff one heart, but then loses a trick in each non-trump suit. Or he can play a spade losing to ace, and then opponents play a club to ace and another diamond, and he cashes one spade pitching one heart, but south can ruff the next spade... Of course, this requires the right lead and careful defense, whereas beating 4♠ is pretty easy unless a heart is lead for some reason. But even on this hand where 4♠ bidder had a very surprising ♦Jx, both contracts are failing on best defense. If the 4♠ bidder had a more likely singleton diamond, then it's very probable that 4♠ will be best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dealmegold Posted February 14, 2010 Report Share Posted February 14, 2010 Pass?! Partner has something like KQJTxxx of spades and out. Even if he has the ace we still have two heart losers to worry about playing in diamonds, and he certainly won't have solid spades. Why are we worried about heart losers if partner has all those spades? I'm thinking "thanks partner, we just missed a slam". What a horrible bid! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
655321 Posted February 14, 2010 Report Share Posted February 14, 2010 Pass?! Partner has something like KQJTxxx of spades and out. Even if he has the ace we still have two heart losers to worry about playing in diamonds, and he certainly won't have solid spades. Why are we worried about heart losers if partner has all those spades? I'm thinking "thanks partner, we just missed a slam". What a horrible bid!Um, which slam would that be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finch Posted February 14, 2010 Report Share Posted February 14, 2010 I don't get all these complaints about partner's bidding without even seeing the hand. 4S showing a very long, internally solid spade suit with little outside that thinks 4S is the right place to play opposite the vast majority of opening bids. It takes up a lot of room, but that is OK because it is a very descriptive bid. This hand is an obvious pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dealmegold Posted February 14, 2010 Report Share Posted February 14, 2010 I'm thinking "thanks partner, we just missed a slam". What a horrible bid!Um, which slam would that be? Not on these hands, but give me the club ace for the ten of diamonds... So I guess partner's pre-empt here has to be pretty descriptive. No outside controls, six tricks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted February 14, 2010 Report Share Posted February 14, 2010 Yes, it is always good to have very precise/descriptive meanings for bids that take up a lot of room after partner has opened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pooltuna Posted February 14, 2010 Report Share Posted February 14, 2010 I don't get all these complaints about partner's bidding without even seeing the hand. 4S showing a very long, internally solid spade suit with little outside that thinks 4S is the right place to play opposite the vast majority of opening bids. It takes up a lot of room, but that is OK because it is a very descriptive bid. This hand is an obvious pass.Does the following hand qualify?[hv=s=sakqxxxxhxxdxxcxx]133|100|[/hv]If it does, pass is not obv, if it is too good then pass becomes clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted February 14, 2010 Report Share Posted February 14, 2010 Others, above, have indicated the spade suit should not be solid, Pool. "Internally solid" (Frances), is a nice description for AQJXXXX or KQJXXXX(X), it seems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pooltuna Posted February 14, 2010 Report Share Posted February 14, 2010 Others, above, have indicated the spade suit should not be solid, Pool. "Internally solid" (Frances), is a nice description for AQJXXXX or KQJXXXX(X), it seems. so let's get a firm definition of solid vs "internally solid." IMV that would be any holding that has no trump losers more than 50% of the time across the whole spectrum of partner's possible trump holding (assuming no ruffs). For example using this definition a trump holding of AKJ5432 ought to be good enough as with 4+ cards there are no losers, with 3 cards at least 75%, with 2 cards somewhere in the greater than 50% range, with 1 card need 32 break and finesse , and finally with a void you are in "deep doo doo". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted February 14, 2010 Report Share Posted February 14, 2010 To me, the 4♠ bid shows very long strong spades missing the ace and no first round controls (no aces and no voids). This would be limited to hands like KQJxxxx xxx xx x or QJTxxxxx xx xx x The suggested spade suit of AQJxxxx is too good. The presence of the ace means that opposite hands like the one presented in the OP a slam might be possible. For example, opposite AQJxxxx x xxx xx 6♦ would be a near claim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siegmund Posted February 15, 2010 Report Share Posted February 15, 2010 so let's get a firm definition of solid vs "internally solid." I assumed "internally solid" meant KQJ-7 or QJT-8 in this context - you know how many tricks your suit is playing for, and it's the same number whether partner has xx or a void. (I think the 4S bid includes some of the KQT type suits though.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted February 15, 2010 Report Share Posted February 15, 2010 Pass?! Partner has something like KQJTxxx of spades and out. Even if he has the ace we still have two heart losers to worry about playing in diamonds, and he certainly won't have solid spades. Why are we worried about heart losers if partner has all those spades? I'm thinking "thanks partner, we just missed a slam". What a horrible bid! What are you talking about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onedown Posted February 21, 2010 Report Share Posted February 21, 2010 I would pass gas 1st then pass...nothing to think about.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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