redouble trouble

[Fluffy]

I never saw so much redouble problems in a tourney, I guess in the forums its not the same as to make a decision knowing that you have real teammates at the other table who might look at you with an evil look.

 

 

nobody vul

 

Kx

Kx

AKQxxxx

xx

 

1NT-p-p-X (12-14)

XX-p-p-??

 

 

XX= forced, pass from RHO = to play, partner's pass is undiscussed

 

 

2. all vul

 

A10

xxxx

9x

108xxx

 

 

1♠-X-p-2♦

p-p-X-XX

p-p-??

 

 

XX showed a max hand (7-9)

 

 

 

 

3. all vul

 

-

K10xxx

Qxxx

AJ10x

 

1♠-p-2♠-X

XX-p-p-??

[Codo]

1. I would bid 2 ♦. For pass to work, I need the right lead and diamonds runnig- or a trick from partner before they run 7. I may sit if I had been on lead, but even then it is close.

 

2. I have 4 HCPS with no fit and no real shortness and showed it as 7-9? And now I am in troubel. Surprise surprise. 2♠

 

3. I have the meta agreement that pass behind the suit is to play. So I would pass without a problem. Without this agreement I have to gamble and try 2 Nt scrambling.

[jjbrr]

2♦

 

2♠

 

2NT. Sorry partner!

[Fluffy]

1. I would bid 2 ♦. For pass to work, I need the right lead and diamonds runnig- or a trick from partner before they run 7. I may sit if I had been on lead, but even then it is close.

 

2. I have 4 HCPS with no fit and no real shortness and showed it as 7-9? And now I am in troubel. Surprise surprise. 2♠

 

3. I have the meta agreement that pass behind the suit is to play. So I would pass without a problem. Without this agreement I have to gamble and try 2 Nt scrambling.

the 2♦ bidder has shown 7-9, you have reopened the bidding with the double after partner opened 1♠.

 

Partner indeed passed 2♠XX to play, but you have to have the guts to stand it.

[pooltuna]

1. Since your probability that partner will lead a ♦ is <25%; 2♦, altho I might choose 2NT

 

2. Well since I was insane enough to X the previous round, 5♣!... Wait! a stroke of sanity, 3♠

 

3. Well my meta agreement preference is "must save" by partner in similar auctions which makes for an easy pass.

[jdonn]

1. Pass let's dance. I've seen responder on this auction take his chances on lots of sick hands before, like balanced 5 counts. Plus I'm sick of all the weak notrump people bragging how they never get caught so I'm out to get them!

 

2. Reopening was pretty dumb IMO, anyway partner's pass is for penalty right? So I pass. But I would be defending 2♦ undoubled.

 

3. I don't think partner's pass is for penalty on this one so 2NT.

[nigel_k]

I like to have the agreement that passing a redouble at 1NT and higher is always for penalty. Sometimes this leaves the redoubler's partner with an unpleasant problem but the situations are infrequent enough that it's better to have certainty about what the pass means.

 

Without that agreement I would still pass all of these but don't feel confident about any of them.

[kfay]

3. I don't think partner's pass is for penalty on this one so 2NT.

After a discussion I had with Noble I agree with this. For me this pass shows no pref, like at the 1-level.

[Codo]

the 2♦ bidder has shown 7-9, you have reopened the bidding with the double after partner opened 1♠.

 

Partner indeed passed 2♠XX to play, but you have to have the guts to stand it.

Oh sorry, misread it. Now I agree with Josh that the reopening double was on the very light side. I had defend 2 ♦ undoubled too. Now I run to 2♠, my patner will expeca lllllmore defence fro me.

 

And I would hae no problems to sit for 2 ♠XX the last example. I have full values for my double.

[Fluffy]

thx for the replies, on the first one partner will have to pick a lead from ♠Jxxx ♥A10xx ♦x ♣Qxxx.

 

the normal club allows declarer to score its 4th trick, diamond lead or heart will squeeze declarer and maybe score 2 or 3 tricks, while a spade might be fatal clearing the suit for them and maybe even make.

 

At the table our opponents run, while me and partner had yet another missunderstanding against weak 1NT at the other table and missed 3NT

 

 

On the second one partner just has ♠KJ9xxx ♥Jx ♦AKJ10x ♣- 11 tricks are avaible for the defence, opps playing on a 4-2 fit. Our opponents run, we almost made 5♦X at the other table O_o

 

 

The third one is quite complicated, partner has ♠AJ87x ♥Jx ♦A10xx ♣xx

 

certainly you'd like to be able to play this contract, however declarer has some perfect distribution KQ109x AQ KJ9x Qx, and the play is very messy. From the 43 tables, 30 played a spade contract on EW cards from 1 to 4, often doubled but never redoubled

 

9 tricks made 3 times

8 tricks made 16 times

7 tricks made 11 times

 

my partner run, but he run with 3 hearts, it could had went -500 but in practice it went undoubled for -200

 

Had he passed instead of doubled 2♠ LHO was raising to 4♠ for at least +500

[Free]

Fluffy, I don't understand something. 1NT-p-p-X-XX is forced. Why isn't opener allowed to pass?

[bid_em_up]

..

[jdonn]

thx for the replies, on the first one partner will have to pick a lead from ♠Jxxx ♥A10xx ♦x ♣Qxxx.

That would have been a good lead problem to post, I bet you would get votes for each suit.

[Fluffy]

Fluffy, I don't understand something.  1NT-p-p-X-XX is forced.  Why isn't opener allowed to pass?

its an old polish theory I believe, you redouble and the doubler never has the guts to pass because they haven't talked about the situation, you avoid a lot of 1NT doubled contracts this way when the final decision gets to the guy who is not on lead and its often a passed hand

[jdonn]

Fluffy, I don't understand something.  1NT-p-p-X-XX is forced.  Why isn't opener allowed to pass?

Usually it's part of a runout scheme that gives responder twice as many options. He can act directly over the double, or pass forcing the redouble then act next round. This usually lets people show all the 1 and 2 suited hands as well as perhaps some other things.

 

I do not think Fluffy's explanation is the reason people play that at all ;) 4th hand is under more pressure if opener is going to pass out 1NTX since his partner has only had one chance to act. Second hand might have doubled intending to bid a suit next round.

[MarkDean]

I would pass all of them.

The convention played in #1 is extremely strange. You purposely take away the ability to play 1NTx in order to limit the number of sequences available to responder?

[jdonn]

I would pass all of them.

The convention played in #1 is extremely strange. You purposely take away the ability to play 1NTx in order to limit the number of sequences available to responder?

Huh? You DOUBLE the number of sequences available to responder.

[rogerclee]

I would pass all of them.

The convention played in #1 is extremely strange.  You purposely take away the ability to play 1NTx in order to limit the number of sequences available to responder?

Huh? You DOUBLE the number of sequences available to responder.

Opener redoubled, not responder.

[jdonn]

I would pass all of them.

The convention played in #1 is extremely strange.  You purposely take away the ability to play 1NTx in order to limit the number of sequences available to responder?

Huh? You DOUBLE the number of sequences available to responder.

Opener redoubled, not responder.

Yes I am aware. What am I missing because it seems like you are both crazy?

 

1NT X, responder's turn. If responder's pass gets opener to pass, responder must bid right away to run, you have that many sequences.

 

1NT X, responder's turn. If responder's pass gets opener to redouble, responder can bid right away to run or pass first then bid after the redouble to run. You get twice as many sequences.

[andy_h]

I think the confusion is that it was the 4th seat who doubled, not the 2nd seat.

[petterb]

Yes I am aware. What am I missing because it seems like you are both crazy?

It seems to me you think bidding was 1N-X-p-p-XX, but it was 1N-p-p-X-XX.

[jdonn]

Oh now I see lol. Yes that convention is dumb as were my last 3 posts or so!

[rogerclee]

Yes let me explain it even though Fluffy already outlined it.

 

1) If the partner of the 1N opener wants to run, he can do so as usual (albeit less effectively).

2) If the partner of the 1N opener wants to sit for 1Nxx, he can. Because the penalty doubler and his partner obviously have no experience or agreement about this kind of auction, and because the penalty doubler is not on lead, he will often get cold feet about defending 1Nxx and just safety and pull to the 2 level.

 

As a consequence you may get penalized less than usual playing this agreement. It seems to me that this agreement is theoretically unsound, but I could believe that it works way more than it should in practice (see the many people in this thread who said they would pull).