Rebid after traditional forcing 1NT

[inquiry]

[hv=d=n&v=n&s=sk2hat4dq543cj832]133|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

Playing 2/1 GF, your partner opens 1♠, you bid 1NT (forcing) and he rebids 2♥, up to you.

 

1♠ 1NT

2♥ ? ? ?

 

What do you bid, and what are your thoughts on your choice.

 

Ben

[luis]

2♠ don't like it very much but I don't like my choices here.

I think I have wasted values in the minors and not enough to stop them both in NT, sO I prefer to bid 2s and see what happens next.

[Free]

Pass. short suit with short trump hand...

[hrothgar]

This is a NASTY one. My initial reaction is to pass. Given a choice between a 4-3 and a 5-2 fit, I normally prefer the 4-3.

 

With this said and done, I'm at the top of my range. My controls are in partner's long suits. If I pass, partner won't get the chance to bid again. If I bid 2S, partner is likely to pass, but might be able to make a descriptive rebid.

 

In short: I'm not sure what action is best, but I wouldn't argue with either pass or 2♠. The one bid that I am NOT making is 2NT.

[MickyB]

2♠ is absolutely clearcut IMO. ♠ rates to be our best strain (IIRC double dummy analysis showed the 5-2 beat the 4-3 by about one-tenth of a trick on average), and partner has to take into account that you may have the same hand without the ♥A when he is deciding whether to jump-shift or not. You could easily have a cold game.

[gabika73]

2♠, clearly. Not enough for 2nt, and pass should not ever come to my mind with that hand..

 

Partner needs a lot for a jump shift, so after 1nt F1, I need to keep the bidding open with anything I can - here I don't have to lie about my strenth or distribution to keep the auction alive. (This practice also makes the jump shift auctions more accurate: partner will not have to jump with a weak 4card side-suit...)

 

Unless pd is 5-5 minimum, 2♥ will seldom be a good contract.

- he can be 6-4, invitational.

- if 5-4, he will be forced in either or both minors, and will not be able to re-enter hand to cash his established spade winners. (i.e. better to play this in 5-2.)

[PriorKnowledge]

2S = 6-7 with 3s or 6-10 with 2s

 

One thing to consider - In a major suit contract our minor quacks are probably worthless.

 

This is the type of hand where precision has an advantage because opener can't be 16-18, so we can safely pass or bid 2S depending on whether our partner likes 5-2 vs 4-3 fits - (There are people who prefer 4-3 fits :rolleyes: )

 

BTW, opener could be 6-4 or 5-5 as well as the likely 5-4

 

Not playing precision, we should bid again to give opener a 2nd chance.

 

Not 3S = 3-card LR (although Kx is close)

Not 3H = 4h+ LR

2N is 2nd choice - only a point shy, M honors may bring one or both of those suits in, and NT gives us value for our minor quacks.

[flytoox]

2s. pass is horrible in 2/1. you can pass only if u r dead min. with this hand it is still possible u have a game.

 

hongjun

[Flame]

2sp i guess.

About the 5-2 and 3-4 discussion, i agree that 5-2 is better then 4-3 but not better then 5-3, so its not that clearcut. maybe with a non forcing 1nt knowing partner wouldnt bid 2h on any 4 hearts, passing is better.

[luis]

The 4-3 fit can be better than the 5-2 spade fit when you dont' have heart honors in the heart hand or when you don't have a spade honor.

In this layout the 5-2 fit should play equal or better specially with the hT in the 3 card side.

[tysen2k]

2♠ is a slight underbid, but the best choice. I don't like pass at all. I think partner is more likely to be 64 than 55. 4-3 fits play best when the 3 trump hand has some shortness. That's not the case here.

 

If I could count on partner for solid opening bids I'd say 2NT is my second choice.

 

Tysen

[paulhar]

2S. You won't think your minor suit cards are worthless if partner's next bid is 2NT (probably about 17-18 with 5-4-2-2.) Also, must cater to 6-4 invitational hand; don't punish partner for correctly bidding 2H rather than 3S since you could have held one spade and five hearts.

 

And if partner is weak, maybe you'll get to ruff a heart with the SK. An opponent that tries to stop that ruff may be giving up a trump trick to do so.

[Fluffy]

One thing to consider - In a major suit contract our minor quacks are probably worthless

But then our major suit cards are the best holdings possible to compensate.

 

Playing in NT things become more orless the same but reversed :rolleyes:.

 

2NT is a small overbid, but its my option, reason: after 2♠ I play 3♥ by opener to show limit values (15-17), so I would bury the game in ♥ if partner is 5-5.

[pclayton]

2♠. I don't like a pass and I think both 3♥ and 3♠ are pushy. 2N is probably the intelligent overbid, but its still an overbid.

 

The unsupported minor suit quacks aren't worth much...yet. The 2 cover cards in the majors are nice, but unless pard has a 6th spade or a 5th heart, our combined collection isn't too special. With a 15-17 (or evaluated as such), I expect pard to pattern out with 6-4's, 5-5's, or even 5422, or 5431's (5440's too). We'll then be in a position to place the final contract.

 

It's a good idea to keep the bidding open when partner may have some extras.

[luke warm]

i'm in the minority with 2nt.. if pard is 5/5 he'll say 3h (least i hope so)... if it's between 2h and 2s i'll pass, but it's more a personal preference... i believe the poster who said 5/2 plays a little better, guess i just have a prejudice for the 4/3 fit here...

[the hog]

2S. Not 2N with such weak hons in the minors

[Cascade]

I voted 2♠.

 

I don't need to worry about my 10 points my 3 points in the minors rate not to be worth much - 2 points at most if the !dQ is working.

 

I need to keep the bidding open if partner has a good hand and this is the most economical way to do so.

 

Neither of my minors are strong enough on their own for 2NT if partner has both majors.

 

There is no need to raise to 3♥ with only a three-card suit. Partner will rebid 3♥ if we belong in hearts.

[xx1943]

[hv=d=n&v=n&s=sk2hat4dq543cj832]133|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

Playing 2/1 GF, your partner opens 1♠, you bid 1NT (forcing) and he rebids 2♥, up to you.

 

1♠ 1NT

2♥ ? ? ?

 

What do you bid, and what are your thoughts on your choice.

 

Ben

2NT in a team-match is a must :( imo

Partner is in the range 12-15. We may have good play for 3NT. 2Nt should be on even if he has minimum.

 

In a MP-event pass or 2♠ maybe ok.

 

Al

[paulhar]

2NT in a team-match is a must :( imo

Partner is in the range 12-15. We may have good play for 3NT. 2Nt should be on even if he has minimum.

 

In a MP-event pass or 2♠ maybe ok.

 

Al

You aren't vulnerable. If 3NT makes, a 3NT contract wins 6 IMPs. If it goes down, it loses 5 IMPs. It's nearly a coin flip. IMO your chances of making 3NT on the lead of LHO's best minor is well less than 50%. Also, when partner is minimum, you're hanging out in 2NT which will go down a good portion of the time. So, I don't see much distinction between non-vul at IMPs and matchpoints. Your point would carry more weight if vulnerable at IMPS, but

 

"We were vulnerable at IMPS" is a statement most frequently heard after the speaker has overbid. :(

 

However, if you're playing Standard (SAYC?), I think partner could have up to 18 for this 2H bid. This is still no excuse to bid 2NT since if partner has near the top of his range, partner will make another move and you will happily bid to or force a game.

[gabika73]

2♠, no other choice, not even close.

 

More interesting is the question about my next bid if partner is stronger and bids again....

I have an easy bid over 2nt, or 3M: I just raise it to game.

 

However, after 3m, I am not so sure about the rebid. That is a tougher question. So, what do we bid with the same hand after

 

1♠ 1NT

2♥ 2♠

3m?

 

Does it depend on which minor our partner bids?

 

Our auction has pinpointed an opening lead, and my partner will hold a singleton in that suit. Neither minors seems to be strong enough to stop opponents winner. we have a maximum with 2 7card fits in the major, and a 3rd 7card fit in a minor.

 

I would try 3♥ to show my hand with partial major fits and some values...

Partner with a singleton honor in the 4th suit will bid 3nt, otherwise will bid his stronger major.

 

Opinions? Ideas?

[paulhar]

(some text deleted)

1♠ 1NT

2♥ 2♠

3m?

 

Does it depend on which minor our partner bids?

 

Opinions? Ideas?

Always an opinion here. :D

 

I'd be afraid to bid 3H for fear that it could be passed. If partner makes a game try, knowing that I only have two spades, it seems clear to me that we want to be in game. Give partner ♠AQJ76 ♥KQ65 ♦2 ♣A65, a typical hand for a 3C bid, (the worse of the two bids you could hear, since it makes a queen worthless instead of a jack), you need only find the heart jack (plus spades 4-2) to make game. You have some additional chances in clubs. The opponents won't always lead diamonds; sometimes the opening leader thinks he has to cut down on ruffs. It's a lot clearer over 3D where you have 9 useful points.

 

I guess I would bid 4H, catering to 5-5, unless I thought there was the slightest chance that partner might think it was a splinter in support of his minor! Bidding the other minor could hardly be misunderstood (kind of a weird 4SF - it can't possibly be natural now.) If I thought there was a shot at both of these being misunderstood, I have to bite the bullet and bid 4S which is probably where we'll end up anyway.

 

I'm not going to cater to partner's singleton honor in the fourth suit since I think he should bid 2NT over 2S on that hand.

[Cascade]

1♠ 1NT

2♥ 2♠

3m?

 

I would try 3♥ to show my hand with partial major fits and some values...

Partner with a singleton honor in the 4th suit will bid 3nt, otherwise will bid his stronger major.

 

Opinions? Ideas?

Why would 3♥ show values?

 

What would you bid without values - say 6hcp?

[gabika73]

1♠ 1NT

2♥ 2♠

3m?

 

I would try 3♥ to show my hand with partial major fits and some values...

Partner with a singleton honor in the 4th suit will bid 3nt, otherwise will bid his stronger major.

 

Opinions? Ideas?

Why would 3♥ show values?

 

What would you bid without values - say 6hcp?

Well, from the feel of the bid.

I have shown 6-10 wioth a doubleton spade. Partner is prepared to play in 3♠ opposite anything I can hold for my bid. So, my 3♠ would be a bust. Anything else shows some extras.

I might be wrong about this, but I am much in favour of sacrificing bids of getting to the better partscore for bids to find the playable game.

 

So, with 6hcp, nothing to tell: 3♠, even with 3card hearts.

 

This is why I am not afraid that partner will pass my 3♥: this is a forward-going bid.

After all, without game-interest, with 6hcp 2344, I could have just passed his 2♥ to avoid further problems...

[1eyedjack]

I have a lot of sympathy for 2N. With a 12 count I would push for 3N and not leave partner under pressure. So 2N is a very narrow range. The contract may be at risk but I am confident partner will not raise with unsuitable hand.

 

10 point hands are the bugbear of 2/1, I think. I would rustle up a 1N response on as little as 5, and to shove a 6 point range in the 2S preference is in my view just asking for a lot of 3 level contracts that are going to be at greater risk than 2N on this hand, when partner makes a game try and you responder happen (next time) to be bottom of the range for your bidding to date.

[gabika73]

2nt would be the bid with some good spots in the minors, say: Q986 and JT85.

However, with this hand as it is, my minor suit honors are just too lonely.

These 10 points are 9, while those with the good spots can be 11...