Fluffy Posted February 10, 2010 Report Share Posted February 10, 2010 ♠AJ♥AJxxx♦Q98x♣Jx you are vulnerable in 4th position (pass)-2♥-(4♠)-5♥(5♠)-X-(XX) You have the ftable eeling that partner doubled because pass would be forcing, after reminding you to pass for the next 5 boards in competition what do you do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pooltuna Posted February 10, 2010 Report Share Posted February 10, 2010 ♠AJ♥AJxxx♦Q98x♣Jx you are vulnerable in 4th position (pass)-2♥-(4♠)-5♥(5♠)-X-(XX) You have the ftable eeling that partner doubled because pass would be forcing, after reminding you to pass for the next 5 boards in competition what do you do? abstain until board colors are clearly defined and 2♥ systemic meaning is given Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted February 10, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2010 weak 2 in hearts sorry, this is IMPs, NS (the gusy with the heart fit) are vulnerable, the spade guys are not (althou they are in a redoubled contract maybe worth a thousand) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted February 10, 2010 Report Share Posted February 10, 2010 Maybe this would be a good time to review your forcing pass agreements? I pass and lead a trump. If partner has x KQxxxx xxx xxx we're going for 1100 in 6♥. Anyway, RHO can't really be certain that he's making. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjbrr Posted February 10, 2010 Report Share Posted February 10, 2010 Perhaps the antidote lies with a partner who isn't crazy. I pass and try a ♦ lead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pooltuna Posted February 10, 2010 Report Share Posted February 10, 2010 Maybe this would be a good time to review your forcing pass agreements? I pass and lead a trump. If partner has x KQxxxx xxx xxx we're going for 1100 in 6♥. Anyway, RHO can't really be certain that he's making. I assumed this was IMPs and you have an Auto pass at these colors with your example hand and X of 5♠ is totally idiotic, maybe anyway even if you hold the right hand for an IMPs V vs NV "weak" 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdanno Posted February 10, 2010 Report Share Posted February 10, 2010 I assume pass was non-forcing and double is showing desired to bid on with extreme shape. I think I bid 6♥.(If I really think partner thinks pass was forcing then I pass.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted February 10, 2010 Report Share Posted February 10, 2010 How could pass be forcing? I pass and hope they make just to teach partner pass shouldn't be forcing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted February 10, 2010 Report Share Posted February 10, 2010 I assumed this was IMPs and you have an Auto pass at these colors with your example hand and X of 5♠ is totally idiotic, maybe anyway even if you hold the right hand for an IMPs V vs NV "weak" 2 Did you read the question? In Fluffy's methods, a pass of 5♠ is forcing. For partner to pass suggests competing to 6♥. That would be an odd thing to do with the example hand I gave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billw55 Posted February 10, 2010 Report Share Posted February 10, 2010 I assumed this was IMPs and you have an Auto pass at these colors with your example hand and X of 5♠ is totally idiotic, maybe anyway even if you hold the right hand for an IMPs V vs NV "weak" 2 Did you read the question? In Fluffy's methods, a pass of 5♥ is forcing. For partner to pass suggests competing to 6♥. That would be an odd thing to do with the example hand I gave. Also odd to open 2♥ vul with that hand :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted February 10, 2010 Report Share Posted February 10, 2010 My point was that for us to have no chance of beating 5♠xx, partner would have to have a defenceless hand like the one I posted. If he has a defensive card in a minor, we probably don't want to pull anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billw55 Posted February 10, 2010 Report Share Posted February 10, 2010 Ah, I see. What I don't see is any reason why pass over 5♠ would be forcing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hanp Posted February 10, 2010 Report Share Posted February 10, 2010 It's not forcing in his methods, his table feeling tells him partner thinks it is forcing. Sounds pretty sketchy to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted February 10, 2010 Report Share Posted February 10, 2010 OK, Fluffy thinks that his partner thinks pass is forcing. That doesn't affect the set of hands on which his partner would double. Fluffy, did you really mean that your reason for believing that partner thinks this a forcing-pass auction is "table feel"? If so, that can only have come from partner, so you have to treat this feeling as unauthorised information. The unauthorised information suggests bidding over passing, so you're obliged to pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billw55 Posted February 10, 2010 Report Share Posted February 10, 2010 hm .. well I am mystified what partner is up to. Luckily I can pass and let him take the final action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pooltuna Posted February 10, 2010 Report Share Posted February 10, 2010 I assumed this was IMPs and you have an Auto pass at these colors with your example hand and X of 5♠ is totally idiotic, maybe anyway even if you hold the right hand for an IMPs V vs NV "weak" 2 Did you read the question? In Fluffy's methods, a pass of 5♠ is forcing. For partner to pass suggests competing to 6♥. That would be an odd thing to do with the example hand I gave. You misunderstand I meant your example hand is an auto pass rather than a 2♥ preempt V vs NV assuming IMPS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted February 10, 2010 Report Share Posted February 10, 2010 I assumed this was IMPs and you have an Auto pass at these colors with your example hand and X of 5♠ is totally idiotic, maybe anyway even if you hold the right hand for an IMPs V vs NV "weak" 2 Did you read the question? In Fluffy's methods, a pass of 5♠ is forcing. For partner to pass suggests competing to 6♥. That would be an odd thing to do with the example hand I gave. You misunderstand I meant your example hand is an auto pass rather than a 2♥ preempt V vs NV assuming IMPS. So when you wrote "X of 5♠ is totally idiotic" you meant "this isn't a 2♥ opening"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billw55 Posted February 10, 2010 Report Share Posted February 10, 2010 So when you wrote "X of 5♠ is totally idiotic" you meant "this isn't a 2♥ opening"? obv lol You need to learn to speak tuna :P But in fairness he did say this bit: "you have an Auto pass at these colors with your example hand" you even quoted it ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pooltuna Posted February 10, 2010 Report Share Posted February 10, 2010 I assumed this was IMPs and you have an Auto pass at these colors with your example hand and X of 5♠ is totally idiotic, maybe anyway even if you hold the right hand for an IMPs V vs NV "weak" 2 Did you read the question? In Fluffy's methods, a pass of 5♠ is forcing. For partner to pass suggests competing to 6♥. That would be an odd thing to do with the example hand I gave. You misunderstand I meant your example hand is an auto pass rather than a 2♥ preempt V vs NV assuming IMPS. So when you wrote "X of 5♠ is totally idiotic" you meant "this isn't a 2♥ opening"? well it is IMO only but yes and if you think it is a 2♥ hand then it is idiotic to play forcing pass in this situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MFA Posted February 10, 2010 Report Share Posted February 10, 2010 Pass of course. Must pass with UI. Very strange to see this a forcing pass situation. It was a 2♥ opening, not a 2♣ opening, right? With normal NF passes, I don't think double from opener here is anything fancy like lightner. Just some good defense to go with our hoped-for values for a vul 5♥ bid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted February 10, 2010 Report Share Posted February 10, 2010 So when you wrote "X of 5♠ is totally idiotic" you meant "this isn't a 2♥ opening"? well it is IMO only but yes and if you think it is a 2♥ hand then it is idiotic to play forcing pass in this situation.Sorry to labour this point, but when you said "X of 5♠ is totally idiotic" did you mean "Given the agreement that pass is forcing, and given that West had opened 2♥ on x KQxxxx xxx xxx, it would be totally idiotic to double 5♠"? Or did you mean something else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akhare Posted February 10, 2010 Report Share Posted February 10, 2010 ♠AJ♥AJxxx♦Q98x♣Jx you are vulnerable in 4th position (pass)-2♥-(4♠)-5♥(5♠)-X-(XX) You have the ftable eeling that partner doubled because pass would be forcing, after reminding you to pass for the next 5 boards in competition what do you do? P -- the lead problem might be tougher though. Assuming sane opps, the 4♠ bidder must be void in ♥s (7♠42, 8♠32). If pard's X is based on say AQX of ♣ (besides ♥ values), we might very well be leading ♦s into declarer's AKJX. So, I am on lead, I would try a ♠ to see what dummy looks like...BTW, would pard X with a ♠ void in this situation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MFA Posted February 10, 2010 Report Share Posted February 10, 2010 Assuming sane opps, the 4♠ bidder must be void in ♥s (7♠42, 8♠32). Huh, where does that come from? Certainly there are hands with a singleton heart that would bid 4♠ over 2♥. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted February 11, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2010 Fluffy, did you really mean that your reason for believing that partner thinks this a forcing-pass auction is "table feel"? If so, that can only have come from partner, so you have to treat this feeling as unauthorised information. The unauthorised information suggests bidding over passing, so you're obliged to pass. playing with screens, my table feeling comes from RHO's face and redouble, and our problems in the past with similar sequences. However I ain't telling you that double was indeed weak, that was just my feeling a that time wich often proves wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted February 11, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2010 diamond lead is a bit hopeless, where are you getting your 3 tricks? this time it at least stopped the overtrick [hv=n=sxhkq10xxdk10xxcxxx&w=sqxxhxxxdxxcq1098x&e=sk10xxxxxhdajxcakx&s=sajhajxxxdq9xxcjx]399|300|[/hv] I led a club thinking that my only hope was to find partner with ♣A. I didn't even consider 6 hearts at the table, but it was the antidote, with a good guess you will collect only -500 losing 1 IMP to -480 at the other table. diamond lead -1000other lead -1200 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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