Couple of slams to bid

[el mister]

Two from last night on bbo, playing Acol (I was north in both cases). First:

 

[hv=d=e&v=b&n=s73ha2d8543caq953&s=sk86hkq10dakq9ckj4]133|200|Scoring: IMP

P - 2NT - P - ?[/hv]

 

I was stuck with what to do here, and ended up bidding 3nt which was passed out. 6NT was bid by quite a few and makes on the lie of the cards (A♠ with E, no bad splits) - should we be in 6NT here, and if so, what is a good way to get there?

 

Second:

 

[hv=d=e&v=b&n=s73ha2d8543caq953&s=sk86hkq10dakq9ckj4]133|200|Scoring: IMP

P - 2NT - P - ?[/hv]

 

The fine contract of 6♠ was reached, via the dodgy route of me bidding blackwood with a void. I felt stuck here again - I need to know if partner has the A♠, but am unsure on how to embark on a cue-bidding sequence after the 1nt opener. Any tips?

[Codo]

1, Hand: I would not like to be in 6 NT with 31 HCPS and one 5 card suit. Here, all HCPS have their full value, the missing cards are all spades or jacks...

 

So having no other tool, I would bid 3 NT too- at most 4 NT invitational.

But the hand upgrades a lot if you have a fit, so if I had a toll avaiable to ask for the minors, I would use it and look for slam after I found a fit.

 

2. Hand: YOu missed the very fine contract of 7 Spade. To reach a slam with a void, there are some possibilities:

A: 1 NT 2 ♣ 2♠ 5 ♥ is voidwood.

B 1 NT 2♣ 2♠ 4♥ shows a shortage in Heart

 

Both are not as eay as it looks, but both helps in these situations.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

#1 You want to be in 6NT, played by South, if diamonds are 3-2 you

are home, which is approx. 68%, well above the req. mark.

But bidding 6NT is not easy, and most likely I would not really worry

too much about missing 6NT, you have no wastage, and just 31HCP.

If you discover the double fit in the minors, than you may be able to

reach 6m - hopefully South plays 6m.

A possible option would be 3S minor suit stayman, but I would bid 3NT.

 

#2 The auction was reasonable.

An improvement is, that you agree that bidding 3 of the other major is a

forcing raise of opners discovered major.

In the current auction 3H would agree spades as trumps and set up a

cue bidding seq.

This agreement is also possible after a 2NT opening, although after

a 3S response, the forcing raise would be 4H.

I think this agreement is really helpful, and I highly recommend it.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[hanp]

If you are serious about bridge and your partnership, ask a good player for 1NT and 2NT structures.

[kenrexford]

Agree with Han. Just as an example of what could be:

 

Hand #1: You could play a 3♠ response to 2NT as showing slam interest with one or both minors, a relay. When partner bids 3NT, you would bid 4♣ or 4♦ with a one-suited minor, 4♥ or 4♠ with both minors (bidding the shortness), or 4NT with both minors and no shortness (hence 2245 or 2254). You could even step it up one notch by having Opener allowed to bid 4♣ instead of 3NT if he has interest himself (3NT then suggests caution), after which Responder's bids are stepped up one level (4♦ or 4♥ as one-suited minor bids, 4♠ or 4NT indicating the short suit from a minor two-suiter), with the 2254 or 2245 now handled by bidding the long minor.

 

Of course, after this Hand #1 start, you need to discuss follow-up sequences. Agree what if anything is RKCB, what is RKCB for which minor (when both are in contention), whether 4NT or 5NT can be to play, whether new major calls are natural, etc.

 

Hand #2: Options for setting trumps after Stayman include Splinters, but another common method, sometimes combined with splinters, is for three of the "other major" to agree the shown major and to indicate slam interest, starting cuebidding. Using this method:

 

1NT-P-2♣-P-

2♠-P-?

 

4♣ or 4♦ or 4♥ = splinters

3♥ = artificial, agrees spades as trumps, start cuebidding (and serious 3NT and LTTC, etc.)

[jjbrr]

Ya I had a hand like the first one in Beijing and my partner and I hadn't discussed the auction. Now we know what to do!

[Cyberyeti]

We'd bid the first:

 

2N-3S (slammish, one or both minors)

3N-4H (at least 5-4 minors, longer clubs)

4S-5H (Keycard in clubs, 2 with the Q)

6N

 

The second we'd bid:

 

1N-2C

2S-4H (splinter)

4N-5C (RKCB-0/3)

5D-5H (Q? yes and the heart is void)

6C-6D (I've got the KC, we've got all the aces - I've got AQ or AK of diamonds, have you got the missing one)

7S

 

From what I can tell, 7S is not brilliant on a trump lead, but much better on a heart lead as you're an entry short to hand to ruff both hearts and draw the last trump.

 

An alternative description for Ken's 1N-2♣-2♠-3♥ is the one we use.

 

We don't have it agreeing spades, but have it slammish without a spade fit, looking for a 4-4 minor suit fit. Typically 2+ 4 card suits without spades and a combined 30+.

[jjbrr]

Why would you splinter and not exclusion?

[Cyberyeti]

Why would you splinter and not exclusion?

Because I'm likely to be able to show the void later, and exchange more information at a lower level that way.

 

If I bid 5H and partner shows 2 aces with 6C, what do I do now ? I need him to hold both minor suit kings for the grand. You might say that he'll bid 6D and now 6H asks for a club control, but if that's the Q he might bid 7 thinking you've got AK (isn't KQxx, -, AQxxx, AKxx a plausible hand for you to bid like this ?).

[ONEferBRID]

Hand 2

 

Ken mentioned the method of 3-of-other-Major to signal "shortness somewhere" and agreeing Major. There is a bonus when Sp are trumps, because you can also show a Void ( whereas you can't do that when Hts are trumps ) :

 

♠ KQJ8

♥ void

♦ AQJ7

♣ A9542

 

♠ A653

♥ A82

♦ K984

♣ K10

 

 

 

South - North

 

1NT - 2C

2S - 3H! ( splinter somewhere)

3S! ( asks) - 3NT! ( shortness is a void )

4C! ( where? ) - ?? ( 4D! = Diam, 4H! = Hts, 4S! = Cl )

4NT ( RKC) - 5C ( 0 or 3 , excluding Hts of course )

5D ( sQ-ask ) - 5NT ( sQ but no minor K's )

6C ( minor Q-ask ) - 6D ( dQ )

?? [ I think I'd just settle in 6S and not even ask about minor Q's ]

 

Edit: ps. The reason for using 3oM for shortness is that the 4C!-jump can be retained for RKC-Gerber, agreeing the Major.

And the 4D!-jump is used as a "balanced" slam-try, agreeing the Major.

1NT - 2C

2M - 4C!/4D!

[kenrexford]

Hand 2

 

Ken mentioned the method of 3-of-other-Major to signal "shortness somewhere" and agreeing Major. There is a bonus when Sp are trumps, because you can also show a Void ( whereas you can't do that when Hts are trumps ) :

 

♠ KQJ8

♥ void

♦ AQJ7

♣ A9542

 

♠ A653

♥ A82

♦ K984

♣ K10

 

 

 

South - North

 

1NT - 2C

2S - 3H! ( splinter somewhere)

3S! ( asks) - 3NT! ( shortness is a void )

4C! ( where? ) - ?? ( 4D! = Diam, 4H! = Hts, 4S! = Cl )

4NT ( RKC) - 5C ( 0 or 3 , excluding Hts of course )

5D ( sQ-ask ) - 5NT ( sQ but no minor K's )

6C ( minor Q-ask ) - 6D ( dQ )

?? [ I think I'd just settle in 6S and not even ask about minor Q's ]

 

Edit: ps. The reason for using 3oM for shortness is that the 4C!-jump can be retained for RKC-Gerber, agreeing the Major.

And the 4D!-jump is used as a "balanced" slam-try, agreeing the Major.

1NT - 2C

2M - 4C!/4D!

Just because I love to figure out any "you can't do that" claims. LOL

 

1NT-P-2♣-P-

2♥-P-3♠(hearts agreed, shortness somewhere)-P-

3NT(where?)-P-?

 

4♥ = stiff spade

4♦ = stiff diamond

4♣ = stiff or void in clubs (4♦ asks if stiff = 4♥, or void = answer RKCB now)

 

Well, at least one void can be shown. But, you can do better, somewhat. Opener could also flag a shortness of interest:

 

1NT-P-2♣-P-

2♥-P-3♠(hearts agreed, shortness somewhere)-P-

?

 

4♣ = interest in diamond shortness only. Responder bids 4♦ with a stiff club, 4♥ with shortness elsewhere, or answers RKCB with a void in clubs.

 

4♦ = interest in a spade void only.

 

Not exactly fabulous, but something.

[jdonn]

Why would you splinter and not exclusion?

Because I'm likely to be able to show the void later, and exchange more information at a lower level that way.

 

If I bid 5H and partner shows 2 aces with 6C, what do I do now ? I need him to hold both minor suit kings for the grand. You might say that he'll bid 6D and now 6H asks for a club control, but if that's the Q he might bid 7 thinking you've got AK (isn't KQxx, -, AQxxx, AKxx a plausible hand for you to bid like this ?).

Luckily there is only 1 ace he can show...

[jjbrr]

Why would you splinter and not exclusion?

Because I'm likely to be able to show the void later, and exchange more information at a lower level that way.

 

If I bid 5H and partner shows 2 aces with 6C, what do I do now ? I need him to hold both minor suit kings for the grand. You might say that he'll bid 6D and now 6H asks for a club control, but if that's the Q he might bid 7 thinking you've got AK (isn't KQxx, -, AQxxx, AKxx a plausible hand for you to bid like this ?).

Luckily there is only 1 ace he can show...

lol

[Cyberyeti]

Why would you splinter and not exclusion?

Because I'm likely to be able to show the void later, and exchange more information at a lower level that way.

 

If I bid 5H and partner shows 2 aces with 6C, what do I do now ? I need him to hold both minor suit kings for the grand. You might say that he'll bid 6D and now 6H asks for a club control, but if that's the Q he might bid 7 thinking you've got AK (isn't KQxx, -, AQxxx, AKxx a plausible hand for you to bid like this ?).

Luckily there is only 1 ace he can show...

Sorry, of course you're right on that. And on this hand where that's the case and you have the QS there is no problem with using exclusion, but shift it to the other hand, and there's still a problem:

 

1N-2C

2S-5H

5N-6C (QS?)

6D(yes + KD)-?

 

and you get a similar problem to the one I outlined where finding out partner's club holding is awkward (and if you play 4130 it can be made similarly awkward by shifting some cards).

 

Also, if partner shows no key card, are you just going to bid 6 ? This is not much of a risk over a 14-16 no trump, but certainly is over lower ranges (not clear what he original 1N was).

 

If the hand was really unkind, the diamonds in the south hand would have been K109x, where if you wanted to bid the grand, you might prefer to bid it in diamonds.

[MinorKid]

I have some hint for Hand I:

Our bidding was like this

2N 3♣ stayman first

3♦ 4♣ then this mean slam interest in clubs, single suiter

4♦ 4♥ cue bids

4N 5♥

6♣

(I think we should'nt cue bid but 4NT direct!)

Yes we were lucky to find ♠A in East

 

 

Our system on suit slam investigation after 2NT

With single suiter:

3♣ Staymen -> 4♣/♦ : slam interest in respective suit

Jump to 4♦/♥ : Transfer to 4♥/♠, slam interest

 

With double suiter:

Both minor:

Responce 4♠ , slam interest (3♠ is weak bid , 5♠ is slam forcing bid)

Major-minor:

Transfer -> 3NT

Both Major:

3♦ transfer to 3♥ then bid 3♠

 

NOTE: This rules is not applicable to 1NT openings!

[mcphee]

hand 1 if we are getting to slam 6D seems the spot to play, not easy. I think the 2 aces with a 5 carder make the hand worth invite unless your methods uncover the 4-4 minor fit with minor suit stayman.

 

Hand 2 you were just lucky partner was able to accept your invite and did not pass 4N. You need a way to set trumps before launching into key card.

[lmilne]

Hand 1: with my regular partner I play 2NT-4♠ as a balanced invite with 5 clubs, often (332)5 or 2245. I don't think there's much value in mentioning the diamonds, and I like my hand, so I would bid that. 6♣ by south is awesome.

 

Hand 2: What P_Marlowe said, bid 3♥ over 2♠ to start a serious slam try and set spades. With both majors bid stayman first then use smolen over 2♦.

[MinorKid]

I have some hint for Hand I:

Our bidding was like this

2N 3♣ stayman first

3♦ 4♣ then this mean slam interest in clubs, single suiter

4♦ 4♥ cue bids

4N 5♥

6♣

(I think we should'nt cue bid but 4NT direct!)

Yes we were lucky to find ♠A in East

 

 

Our system on suit slam investigation after 2NT

With single suiter:

3♣ Staymen -> 4♣/♦ : slam interest in respective suit

Jump to 4♦/♥ : Transfer to 4♥/♠, slam interest

 

With double suiter:

Both minor:

Responce 4♠ , slam interest (3♠ is weak bid , 5♠ is slam forcing bid)

Major-minor:

Transfer -> 3NT

Both Major:

3♦ transfer to 3♥ then bid 3♠

 

NOTE: This rules is not applicable to 1NT openings!

If my partner is a little more clever he should had bid 6N and do not cue bid. :D

2N 3♣

3♦ 4♣

4N 5♥

6N

Anyway i've made it!