All sorts of controls, no tricks

[CSGibson]

[hv=d=s&v=n&n=sa76hak75dk85c654&s=skqt954ht2da93ca2]133|200|Scoring: MP

Opponents silent,

1♠-2♦,

2♠-3♠,

4♣-4♥,

4N-5♠,

5N-6♦,

6♠ All pass[/hv]

 

A small trump is led to RHO's jack, and your king.

 

1) Assign the blame for being in this bad slam (2/1 context, serious 3N agreed upon)

 

2) What's your best shot of making it?

 

Edit: South's hand was changed from Jx to Tx. This obviously has a huge bearing on the play, my apologies.

[jjbrr]

I don't feel strongly that S should RKC. What extras does he have? Sure he can cooperate by cuebidding as much as his hand allows, but I don't think he can take control on this hand.

[karlson]

I don't think north has a slam try opposite the non-serious, so on your auction, I blame north. But south actually is pretty close to a serious try, so while I'd like to think I'd stop in 5, I could see getting to slam also.

 

I would duck a club and play for a squeeze. If someone has 4 hearts and 5 diamonds (or all the honors), it'll be easy. There's also a neat guard squeeze I think if lho has 4+ hearts and two of the diamond honors. Ruff one heart and come down to

 

--

x

Kx

x

 

x

--

A9x

--

 

When you play your last trump, assuming lefty has the heart guard, he can't pitch a club or else his partner will be squeezed in the minors, so he has to come down to stiff diamond, so you can play DK and hook the 9 on the way back. This requires some reading of the position obviously, but you will probably be able to do it. They can also break it up by returning a diamond, but I doubt either defender will risk opening up the suit.

[PhantomSac]

huh? If RHO has the HQ I am cold by leading a heart to the jack. So there's 50 % already. If LHO wins the HQ, I still have live squeeze possibilities.

[rogerclee]

1) NS both overbid, but this may depend on what you call a serious or nonserious hand. South should have noticed that Axx of diamonds opposite a non-diamond cuebid is a good indicator that something bad is going to happen, so a signoff seems prudent. North's hand is really only good opposite club shortness, and the only possible shape for that is 6331 (or 7 spades); I wouldn't bet on it.

 

2) Maybe I'm being dumb, seems like the only legit chance I have is the heart hook, with a small extra chance of a red suit squeeze if it doesn't work.

[karlson]

Hah, I did forget we had the HJ. Actually the guard squeeze still works fine if the heart loses.

[Fluffy]

heart to the jack obv.

 

to karlson: I think if 4♣ (or overpassing 3NT) was conventional we would had been told.

 

I don't see the blind quite easilly here, if anything I think north should bid only 4♠ over 4♣ to limit his 4333 minimum a bit more. But with ♥AK it would make it impossible to use blackwood and avoid slam off 2 keycards then.

[karlson]

to karlson: I think if 4♣ (or overpassing 3NT) was conventional we would had been told.

it's true :P

 

2/1 context, serious 3N agreed upon

[CSGibson]

Sorry, misremembered the hand, it was Tx in hearts, not Jx. I am adjusting the OP.

[the hog]

I dislike the 2D bid greatly. The bid causes partner to overvalue the DA. Would 2C be any better? No, not really, unless you play 2C as a general gf based on a balanced hand, which is what I would prefer if not being able to play 2C as a GFR.

I am curious as to how Nth overbid rogerclee?

The only legit line I can see is a red suit squeeze, which I guess is unlikely.

[rogerclee]

I dislike the 2D bid greatly. The bid causes partner to overvalue the DA. Would 2C be any better? No, not really, unless you play 2C as a general gf based on a balanced hand, which is what I would prefer if not being able to play 2C as a GFR.

I am curious as to how Nth overbid rogerclee?

The only legit line I can see is a red suit squeeze, which I guess is unlikely.

South made a nonserious cuebid, to me this denies as much as a reasonable 15 count (as I said above, yours and others' definitions may vary, but I think this is normal). From constructing hands for south it seems that:

 

1) Whenever south has 5 spades slam is going to be terrible. This isn't a huge problem because often you won't get past game anyway, but south could be 5134 or 5224 or so and go on with a maximum, and there is basically no way slam is good.

 

2) If south has 6 spades slam will usually not be better than on a hook unless he has club shortness. It's possible he has KQxxxx QJ Ax Kx or KQxxxx Qxx Ax Kx or something, but I'd expect to reach too many terrible slams opposite maximum "nonserious" hands. As noted above, if south has 6 spades and club shortness, his only possible shape is 6331, which is not likely.

[jdonn]

Although the 2♦ bid was quite weird, the main fault in getting to the bad slam is that north was not at all worth a cuebid over a non-serious cuebid by south. Why even play the convention if you won't use the information it gives you? South's cuebid says "I'm minimum but cuebidding in case you have extras" and north didn't have them. South's entire auction seems good to me.

[rogerclee]

Although the 2♦ bid was quite weird, the main fault in getting to the bad slam is that north was not at all worth a cuebid over a non-serious cuebid by south. Why even play the convention if you won't use the information it gives you? South's cuebid says "I'm minimum but cuebidding in case you have extras" and north didn't have them. South's entire auction seems good to me.

Actually I agree with this now, south's hand is huge, blackwood was normal.

[gnasher]

North was barking.

[Fluffy]

to karlson: I think if 4♣ (or overpassing 3NT) was conventional we would had been told.

it's true :)

 

2/1 context, serious 3N agreed upon

doh!, happens at times :P. well it its then quite clear to me that south had guessed right to bid 4♣ instead of 3NT and north was playing a different game.

[mike777]

[hv=d=s&v=n&n=sa76hak75dk85c654&s=skqt954ht2da93ca2]133|200|Scoring: MP

Opponents silent,

1♠-2♦,

2♠-3♠,

4♣-4♥,

4N-5♠,

5N-6♦,

6♠ All pass[/hv]

 

A small trump is led to RHO's jack, and your king.

 

1) Assign the blame for being in this bad slam (2/1 context, serious 3N agreed upon)

 

2) What's your best shot of making it?

 

Edit:  South's hand was changed from Jx to Tx.  This obviously has a huge bearing on the play, my apologies.

North

 

prefer 2c not 2d

 

Prefer 4s not 3s.

 

 

1s=2c ugly but forced.

2s=4s I could hardly have much worse.

[the hog]

[hv=d=s&v=n&n=sa76hak75dk85c654&s=skqt954ht2da93ca2]133|200|Scoring: MP

Opponents silent,

1♠-2♦,

2♠-3♠,

4♣-4♥,

4N-5♠,

5N-6♦,

6♠ All pass[/hv]

 

A small trump is led to RHO's jack, and your king.

 

1) Assign the blame for being in this bad slam (2/1 context, serious 3N agreed upon)

 

2) What's your best shot of making it?

 

Edit:  South's hand was changed from Jx to Tx.  This obviously has a huge bearing on the play, my apologies.

North

 

prefer 2c not 2d

 

Prefer 4s not 3s.

 

 

1s=2c ugly but forced.

2s=4s I could hardly have much worse.

Are you serious or is this a joke? You have 6 controls!

[mike777]

[hv=d=s&v=n&n=sa76hak75dk85c654&s=skqt954ht2da93ca2]133|200|Scoring: MP

Opponents silent,

1♠-2♦,

2♠-3♠,

4♣-4♥,

4N-5♠,

5N-6♦,

6♠ All pass[/hv]

 

A small trump is led to RHO's jack, and your king.

 

1) Assign the blame for being in this bad slam (2/1 context, serious 3N agreed upon)

 

2) What's your best shot of making it?

 

Edit:  South's hand was changed from Jx to Tx.  This obviously has a huge bearing on the play, my apologies.

North

 

prefer 2c not 2d

 

Prefer 4s not 3s.

 

 

1s=2c ugly but forced.

2s=4s I could hardly have much worse.

Are you serious or is this a joke? You have 6 controls!

I was serious ......3s shows more than this for me. this is a 7 loser hand 8-1(lots of controls)=7. 4333 shape.

 

 

 

2c shows alot for me, not crap. 1s and 2s can be crap.

[Codo]

I had bid 2♣ 4♠ with the north hand too.

Partner showed 12-14, so how great should his hand be so that slam is making?

 

If I had a tool avaiable like serious 3 NT, I may had bid 3 ♠ and 4 ♠ over 4 ♣.

[the hog]

I had bid 2♣ 4♠ with the north hand too.

Partner showed 12-14, so how great should his hand be so that slam is making?

 

If I had a tool avaiable like serious 3 NT, I may had bid 3 ♠ and 4 ♠ over 4 ♣.

So I guess you and Mike don't play picture bids? How do you show that hand type then?

[Free]

- North bid a strange 2♦, but that didn't ruin the hand. He probably thought it was important to show a suit with at least some values.

- North continued to cuebid after partner showed a bare minimum over 3♠. This is plain aweful!

 

So I'd blame North.

[Codo]

So I guess you and Mike don't play picture bids? How do you show that hand type then?

What and why shall I show here? My partner promised 5 spades and 12-14 HCps.

Baring a highly distributional hand, we will not make 6 spade so often. I have 4 cover cards for him, no length to develop, no ruffing values.

Can he hold 8 tricks in his hand and bid like this? No way.

If he had bid 2 Heart instead of 2 Spade, that had been quite a different piece of cake. But he did not.

 

The pair reached the poor slam because north never used any kind of breaks.

[Little Kid]

I blame North for the same reason as everyone else: 4♥ after partner denied a good hand. I would also bid 2♣ over 1♠ but really don't think that is why NS got too high. 4♠ over 2♠ is not something I wouldn't even consider, I think its a terrible bid.