Responding with flat hands

[godot]

As dealer, you hold, Jxx Jxx Q109 J10xx

 

Bidding goes : P - P - 1H - 1S.

 

Your action and why? This is a poll of sorts stemmig from a mutual dissension over how this hand is treated. Please feel free to express your bids and reasons.

[straube]

http://www.jeffgoldsmith.org/cgi-bin/knr.c...xx+Jxx+QT9+JTxx

 

knr=2.8

 

Passing. Used to be that a raise here showed better than a simple raise as this is a "free bid" and should thus be more meaningful. Nowadays it's more like 5-9 or 6-10 and this hand falls clearly below those ranges.

[mike777]

As dealer, you hold, Jxx Jxx Q109 J10xx

 

Bidding goes : P - P - 1H - 1S.

 

Your action and why? This is a poll of sorts stemmig from a mutual dissension over how this hand is treated. Please feel free to express your bids and reasons.

pass...wtp

 

I mean 2h could show a huge hand compared to this. ..huge.

[Siegmund]

I am willing to shade 2H down to 10 losers and 5HCP here - though it often turns out badly when I do - but not 11.

 

On the other hand, the times that I find the nerve to pass with the 10-loser hands (and give only simple raises on QJx Jxxx QJx KJx hands!) I often find myself ahead of the field, and really need to learn to do it more often.

[mich-b]

Pass,

And I like to support partner's suit any time it looks reasonable.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

2H.

 

Ugly, but you have a fit, it would help to be able to tell p, that you have

a garbage raise, but even if not, 2H it is.

 

The alternative is Pass, but you dont win, if you Pass and let them have

a free ride at low levels.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[PhantomSac]

lol, don't bid with this hand!!

[hotShot]

As usual this depends on your agreements.

 

If your agreed partnership style is to bid a preemptive 2♥ with 0-9 HCP and 3 card support, than you should bid 2♥ now. However this is not a standard agreement and there might be dispute, if that is winning bridge (at least against opps that matter).

 

In any constructive context, this is a clear pass, partner will be able to bid again this round, if he has extra strength we can enter the auction later.

[jjbrr]

Bidding here is silly imo.

[P_Marlowe]

Bidding here is silly imo.

Just one simple reason, why it may make sense to bid:

You stop the opponents from bidding 2H to show a good (inv.) raise, i.e.

you denie them a valuable option.

 

And doing this is certainly not a silly thing.

 

But you pay a price for doing this: You risk misleading p with regards

to your strength, which may lead p to compete more than may be good

for us.

 

So you need to decide, if you are willing to pay the price or not.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[CSGibson]

Pass. Flat quacks, this is a defensive hand not an offensive one. And as for taking up the 2♥ bid, I think any advantage of doing that is offset by the extra information you give away about us probably having an 8 card fit; it certainly makes the hand with xxx or xxxx in hearts much better.

[kenberg]

I would pass. My thinking is this: If the opponents are able to compete to 2S, an immediate raise to 2H would help partner bid 3H over 2S. It's not clear to me that this help will be appreciated when he sees the dummy. If I pass, and if (of course it's an if) partner can re-enter the auction then he won't get overexcited by my heart support. This seems to be what I want.

 

I appreciate that this might depend some on partnership agreements but really I don't think any partner could get me to agree to bid with this. If he wants to bid when he holds it, so be it, but I pass.

[jjbrr]

Bidding here is silly imo.

Just one simple reason, why it may make sense to bid:

You stop the opponents from bidding 2H to show a good (inv.) raise, i.e.

you denie them a valuable option.

 

And doing this is certainly not a silly thing.

 

But you pay a price for doing this: You risk misleading p with regards

to your strength, which may lead p to compete more than may be good

for us.

 

So you need to decide, if you are willing to pay the price or not.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

It may also make sense to preempt wildly with this hand to prevent the opponents from having any sort of constructive auction at all and hope they guess wrong. I hope you agree that would not be a winning strategy, though.

 

I strongly feel it is better to bid your hand and give partner the best chance to use the best judgment he can. This hand is not constructive, and bidding 2♥ just so they can't cuebid is a misrepresentation about the strength of this hand. That's a pretty darn small target and the range of hands everyone can have is still quite large.

[hanp]

Bidding doesn't only risk partner overcompeting. It also risks partner reasonably bidding game and having no play.

[Edmunte1]

I was waiting for you, Godot :)

[peachy]

I stretch to support partner but only if partner knows 2H here could be a stretch with a really bad hand. However, even uner those agreement, I pass with this hand; worst possible shape. If I had a doubleton spade, then it becomes a 50/50 and if I had a singleton spade, definitely 2H.

[Cascade]

PASS not a maximum for that (in)action.

[Cascade]

Bidding doesn't only risk partner overcompeting. It also risks partner reasonably bidding game and having no play.

And risks partner not bidding game next time when you actually have your bid.

[neilkaz]

I like to stretch a bit to compete, but since I also like to stretch to keep my partners, I pass this quacky flat junk.

[Apollo81]

As dealer, you hold, Jxx Jxx Q109 J10xx

 

Bidding goes : P - P - 1H - 1S.

 

Your action and why? This is a poll of sorts stemmig from a mutual dissension over how this hand is treated. Please feel free to express your bids and reasons.

You can't make the same bid with a no-constructive-value hand that you make with constructive hands and expect good results. You also wouldn't bid 3♥ with both Jx Jxxx xxx Qxxx and with xx Kxxx KQxx xxx.

[godot]

Ahh, thanks for all the responses, folks.

 

Pass is the sanest action there. Though am mildly surprised noone made a case for a crappy 1NT with those nice minor spots. Lets just say, I was missing the pass card in my bidding box that night ;)

[Echognome]

Fred once made a post that resonated with me (and I hope I'm not misquoting him or taking it out of context), but my recollection was that to raise partner you should have something for him. You should have an A or a K or shortness or extra trump. I always thought that was useful advice.

 

Here we have nothing to offer partner, so it's an easy pass.

[jdonn]

Fred once made a post that resonated with me (and I hope I'm not misquoting him or taking it out of context), but my recollection was that to raise partner you should have something for him. You should have an A or a K or shortness or extra trump. I always thought that was useful advice.

 

Here we have nothing to offer partner, so it's an easy pass.

I think he was talking about making a preemptive raise, in the sense that there are literally players who do so with xxxx xxx xxx xxx. But that advice could still be applied here to some extent.

[PhantomSac]

Fred once made a post that resonated with me (and I hope I'm not misquoting him or taking it out of context), but my recollection was that to raise partner you should have something for him.  You should have an A or a K or shortness or extra trump.  I always thought that was useful advice. 

 

Here we have nothing to offer partner, so it's an easy pass.

I think he was talking about making a preemptive raise, in the sense that there are literally players who do so with xxxx xxx xxx xxx. But that advice could still be applied here to some extent.

Guess we can wait for gwnn to decide this, but pretty sure he was talking about a simple raise. I also learned a lot from that post.