two bidding problems, same convention

[gwnn]

Axxx

JT9xxx

x

Kx

 

2♣*-3♣-4♦-?

 

2♣=strong any or 4-7 with diamonds.

 

xxx

xx

xxxxx

xxx

 

2♣*-p-?

 

in both these cases the 2♣ opener was dealer and favorable at imps.

[helene_t]

The first one I try 4♥. Dbl is not an option but pass could be right.

 

The second one I bid 2♦, most likely partner is strong.

[hotShot]

So your're playing against this convention. If would be nice if double would be neg. or T/o now. That way I could show both majors. Otherwise I'll simply bid 4♥.

 

The 2nd is easy: 2♦ it will be more interesting next round. At that point I would like to know if 2♣ is GF, SF or only strong.

[655321]

On the first hand I would bid 4♥. Double is possible if this is takeout, but if partner is something like 3226 4♥ might be our only making game, and double won't get us there.

 

On the second hand, I should abstain because I would never play this convention, but anyway 2♦ is obvious even to me.

[hanp]

4H and 2D seem obvious.

[Hanoi5]

4♥ and 2♦.

[jjbrr]

unanimous

[PhantomSac]

Yeah given our T9 of hearts I would consider doubling 4D to be a big mistake.

[whereagles]

Matter of opinion, I guess, for I double without a qualm...

 

2nd 2♦ seems obivous

[jdonn]

4♥ and 2♦. If the second one works badly because partner really is weak with diamonds and we failed to preempt, well blame yourself for playing this silly convention.

[Jlall]

4♥ and 2♦. If the second one works badly because partner really is weak with diamonds and we failed to preempt, well blame yourself for playing this silly convention.

I think it's an awesome convention. Sure you payoff to rare hand types like this where you're super weak in diamonds and partner is also weak in diamonds and RHO couldn't bid (basically never), but when you actually have a 2C opener the opps cannot really massively interfere because they're assuming you have a weak opener.

 

edit: Obviously the biggest payoff is if you have a weak 2 in diamonds and they have more room, but if you're going to play say multi, I would much prefer to play 2C=weak 2 in diamonds or strong 2C than just play 2C=strong 2C.

[jdonn]

Well it's not like you need a 0 count for it to cost, you need any hand you would have raised 2♦ to 3♦. It also costs if you would have responded anything but 2♦ to a 2♣ opening bid. Or when you would have opened 2♦ planning on certain auctions to take another bid (2♣ p 2♦ 2♥ 3♣ etc.) IOW you have no flexibility ever.

 

But I really should stop criticizing things I have never played! !h convention.

[gwnn]

Just to make it clear, 2♣ doesn't force 2♦. I mean if 2♣ forced 2♦ I wouldn't have made that half of the thread would I?

 

Of course you also lose on the hands when you open 2♣ on some complicated hand and partner bids a lot of diamonds, but I just wanted to make this clear.

[Gerben42]

I agree with Justin here. I play the really dangerous-looking responses to this:

 

2♦ = GF opposite SF+

2♥ = would have passed a semiforcing in ♥ / 14+ with good 5+♥

2♠ = 1 trick for ♥ not for ♠ / 14+ with good 5+♠

 

A numerical simulation has shown that weak vs weak comes up once every 5 years, and strong vs strong you need to be Methusalem.

[Fluffy]

I had a 2♦-2NT-4NT hand once, we had no agreements to find a fit after that start. I laughed when partner wanted to make agreements for if it showed again lol.

[gwnn]

The first one my RHO did indeed bid 4♥. His partner said after the board that it was a clear overbid (they got to slam off ♥AKQ and the ♦A) and also the 4♥ bidder at the after game drinking party told me that he felt he had overbid by a lot. I told him I agreed very strongly with 4♥.

 

The second one I did not actually open 2♣ but 1♠. I had (gulp)

KQJ9xx

A

A

AKJxx

and wanted to try out new things. My endeavor almost ended in despair when it started

1♠-p-p-

but then it went

           2♥

4♣-p-4♠-p

p-tank pass (I wanted to redouble but he passed :( )

 

Johann told me he would never have jump raised diamonds since it was all but sure I was strong. Of course now it's quite clear to me too.

[Fluffy]

we open 2♦ weak both majors or strong balanced, and we reoutinely answer 2♥/♠ with the WORST major when very weak just to make strong hand declarer.