another preempt

[bftboy]

[hv=d=e&v=n&s=sq105hk6daq5cak876]133|100|Scoring: MP[/hv]

 

After 3♥ on your right, what is your call?

 

If you choose dbl, what will you do with P's most probable responses? :D

[karlson]

I would bid 3n, since it's the most likely game and this may to be our only chance to get there.

 

If I did double, I would bid 3n over 3s, pass 4d or 4s, and raise 4c to game.

[aguahombre]

I would bid 3n, since it's the most likely game and this may to be our only chance to get there.

 

If I did double, I would bid 3n over 3s, pass 4d or 4s, and raise 4c to game.

yep. And I would probably be wrong raising 4C.

[jdonn]

I would double, since that precludes 3NT less than overcalling 3NT precludes everything else. Certainly if partner has 5 spades it's likely we would rather play in spades than notrump.

[655321]

3NT for me.

 

[Edit] Sorry, I misread the problem, I thought it was a 3♦ Opening, and I was wondering why on earth anyone would double...

 

I double a 3♥ opening too.

Edited January 28, 2010 by 655321

[Fluffy]

double wtp for me, ♥Ax would be very different history.

[aguahombre]

double wtp for me, ♥Ax would be very different history.

hmm.. I was thinking backwards from this --that AX of hearts would weigh in favor of doubling.

[Fluffy]

I think that being able to duck a heart is very vey important in 3NT

[aguahombre]

I think that being able to duck a heart is very vey important in 3NT

True enough, if the remaining 4 hearts are split 2-2 having the ace is better for notrump than having the king. Any other distribution of the remaining hearts is irrelevent for NT play. However, for suit play (possible after a double), the Ace will score, while KX might be two fast losers, and therefore making the double less attractive.

[whereagles]

I think this is really a 3NT wtp... lol

[Fluffy]

I think that being able to duck a heart is very vey important in 3NT

True enough, if the remaining 4 hearts are split 2-2 having the ace is better for notrump than having the king. Any other distribution of the remaining hearts is irrelevent for NT play. However, for suit play (possible after a double), the Ace will score, while KX might be two fast losers, and therefore making the double less attractive.

mmm true, seems like I am a coward who is already thinking on how many downs we go ;)

[gnasher]

Double looks normal.

[Jlall]

I'd X

[bftboy]

 

If I did double, I would bid 3n over 3s, pass 4d or 4s, and raise 4c to game.

do people generally agree with these options after a dbl, esp. with correcting 3♠ to 3NT? B)

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

3NT.

 

Obviously X is the alternative given your poor stopper, but as they say

"Bidding 3NT is a dirty job, and someone has to do it."

 

If I X, I will raise any suit bid to game, and will pass a 3NT response.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[P_Marlowe]

I would double, since that precludes 3NT less than overcalling 3NT precludes everything else. Certainly if partner has 5 spades it's likely we would rather play in spades than notrump.

If p has 5 spades, we still can play 4S, if we overcall 3NT, espesially,

if partner knowes, that our stopper could be poor.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[hotShot]

I think X is the way to go, this way we will learn something about partners shape.

[jdonn]

I would double, since that precludes 3NT less than overcalling 3NT precludes everything else. Certainly if partner has 5 spades it's likely we would rather play in spades than notrump.

If p has 5 spades, we still can play 4S, if we overcall 3NT, espesially,

if partner knowes, that our stopper could be poor.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

How does he know we aren't 1237 with a solid minor? Overcalling 3NT doesn't promise a balanced hand, partner usually won't even pull with 6 spades.

[P_Marlowe]

I would double, since that precludes 3NT less than overcalling 3NT precludes everything else. Certainly if partner has 5 spades it's likely we would rather play in spades than notrump.

If p has 5 spades, we still can play 4S, if we overcall 3NT, espesially,

if partner knowes, that our stopper could be poor.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

How does he know we aren't 1237 with a solid minor? Overcalling 3NT doesn't promise a balanced hand, partner usually won't even pull with 6 spades.

I would expect him to pull, and personnally I promise a (semi) bal. hand,

but I agree, that a lot depends on what hands one expects to overcall 3NT

or not.

If my p has the 7321 shape (I checked, the cross sum is 13), and I pull, he

will know what to do.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[Jlall]

I would double, since that precludes 3NT less than overcalling 3NT precludes everything else. Certainly if partner has 5 spades it's likely we would rather play in spades than notrump.

If p has 5 spades, we still can play 4S, if we overcall 3NT, espesially,

if partner knowes, that our stopper could be poor.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

How does he know we aren't 1237 with a solid minor? Overcalling 3NT doesn't promise a balanced hand, partner usually won't even pull with 6 spades.

I would expect him to pull, and personnally I promise a (semi) bal. hand,

but I agree, that a lot depends on what hands one expects to overcall 3NT

or not.

If my p has the 7321 shape (I checked, the cross sum is 13), and I pull, he

will know what to do.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

lol, yeah I'm sure he'll just go back to 3N if you pull 3N...

[jjbrr]

double for me.

[P_Marlowe]

I would double, since that precludes 3NT less than overcalling 3NT precludes everything else. Certainly if partner has 5 spades it's likely we would rather play in spades than notrump.

If p has 5 spades, we still can play 4S, if we overcall 3NT, espesially,

if partner knowes, that our stopper could be poor.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

How does he know we aren't 1237 with a solid minor? Overcalling 3NT doesn't promise a balanced hand, partner usually won't even pull with 6 spades.

I would expect him to pull, and personnally I promise a (semi) bal. hand,

but I agree, that a lot depends on what hands one expects to overcall 3NT

or not.

If my p has the 7321 shape (I checked, the cross sum is 13), and I pull, he

will know what to do.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

lol, yeah I'm sure he'll just go back to 3N if you pull 3N...

From your remark, if I try to ignore the heat - you play 3NT, the way that

3NT says, p I know, what I am doing, I dont want to investigate any other

possible contract. Thats fine. I dont.

 

For me 3NT is an offer to play there, but p can suggest a better place.

From this followes, that I wont make a 3NT overcall with certain hands you

would do, and I will make a 3NT overcall with hands you wont do.

 

We can discuss pro and con, as long as we keep trying to discuss things

objectivly.

 

I was just pointing out, that 4S is not dead, if we overcall 3NT, some peoble

(maybe only the french) play a system over a 3NT overcall to discover a

better place, may mean nothing.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

 

PS: Looking at the voting results 3NT vs. X being equally often choosen, the

above mentioned difference of an 3NT overcall in this position may be an

explantion for why one would either choose X or choose 3NT, or the other way

around.

[Jlall]

PS: Looking at the voting results 3NT vs. X being equally often choosen, the

above mentioned difference of an 3NT overcall in this position may be an

explantion for why one would either choose X or choose 3NT, or the other way

around.

Sorry but you are dreaming. People don't think overcalling 3N shows a balanced hand and that you can thus get to a 5-3 spade fit. Even if 3N always showed a balanced hand it is not clear why you would go to a 5 card suit...partner can have a doubleton.

 

But 3N just says "I think 3N might make." It can be made on a wide range of shapes and hands because it is the only way to get there. I don't believe you would not overcall 3N on A Ax AKQJxxx Jxx because 3N shows a balanced hand to you. That is just absurd. Not overcalling 3N on J KQx AKJxx AQJx (what on earth would you bid?) is also absurd. There are a lot of hands with a stiff spade where you must bid 3N out of necessity.

 

The reason some are bidding 3N and some are Xing is not because they think theres a difference in what 3N shows, they are just using different judgment.

[hanp]

I would not recommend thinking backwards from different histories, life gets too complicated.

 

This looks like an easy double though.

 

Justin, I think I would usually pull 3NT with 6 spades. It just seems that this will be right more often.

 

Edit: with Justin I of course meant Josh.

[Jlall]

I would not recommend thinking backwards from different histories, life gets too complicated.

 

This looks like an easy double though.

 

Justin, I think I would usually pull 3NT with 6 spades. It just seems that this will be right more often.

 

Edit: with Justin I of course meant Josh.

I think it depends on the rest of your hand and especially on the quality of your spades. QJT9xx is a lot different than Q65432 obviously. I doubt we are very far apart in how often we would pull with 6 spades.