A freak...

[Hanoi5]

Red vs White:

 

Pass Pass Pass ...

 

And you hold:

 

♠AKQT8xxx

♥

♦

♣AKJxx

[PFormaini]

Red vs White:

 

Pass Pass Pass ...

 

And you hold:

 

♠AKQT8xxx

♥

♦

♣AKJxx

You hold the master suit?

 

Whap possible purpose would there be to opening with a 6 or 7 bid?

 

Why not try to find out about the Q♣ or potential club shortness and a couple of spades in dummy?

 

Why preempt your own side when there is no need to? :D

[mike777]

6s

[jdonn]

How will I ever figure out anything? 7♠

[PFormaini]

How will I ever figure out anything? 7♠

Some bidding systems have tools to find things out.....and some don't, I suppose. :D

[jjbrr]

7♠

[Fluffy]

masterminding we could open 2♣ then bid clubs, if partner fails to raise we know that he only has doubleton at most, if he raises we have a way to ask for ♣Q with 4NT or kickback.

 

This risks partner missunderstanding our 6/7♠ bid in the end if he isn't trained with this kind of stuff.

[PFormaini]

masterminding we could open 2♣ then bid clubs, if partner fails to raise we know that he only has doubleton at most, if he raises we have a way to ask for ♣Q with 4NT or kickback.

 

This risks partner missunderstanding our 6/7♠ bid in the end if he isn't trained with this kind of stuff.

So what if he misunderstands?

 

Just what can partner do over 7 Spades? :D

 

And please don;t say "Bid 7NT." No just would convict you, even if you were caught holding the bloody hatchet in your hand. :D

[Mbodell]

time to invent a convention? 5nt specific Q ask. :D

[PFormaini]

time to invent a convention? 5nt specific Q ask. :)

Probably best to set a suit first, THEN ask for specific queens. :D

I'd love to see prtner's face if oyu opened 5NT. :D

[Dirk Kuijt]

I think that it is unrealistic to assume that you will have the auction to yourself if you open 2♣, or a strong 1♣. There are a lot of red cards out there.

[PFormaini]

I think that it is unrealistic to assume that you will have the auction to yourself if you open 2♣, or a strong 1♣.  There are a lot of red cards out there.

Probably not - but why not try? What's to prevent you from bidding 7SP if you cannot get the information you might need to bid to a better contract? (For instance, if partner has a singleton or void in Spades and 3 or 4 Clubs?

 

If I had only HEARTS, I might want to cut off a possible Spade sacrifice (or make!!!!)

 

But with Spades, I cannot be preempted. So why not go slowly?

[the hog]

2C. Normally I don't like this too much on a 2 suited hand. Here I think that if you have the ability to bid the hand slowly, you will even be able to find out if pd has C support. If the opponents pre empt, well you have the boss suit anyway and nothing is lost.

[gwnn]

sjö spaðar

 

(why don't I ever get dealt these hands? --- a disappointed Forum armchair poster)

[Cyberyeti]

I'd open 2♣. I visualise an auction like:

 

2♣-2♦

3♠-4♠

5♣-5♠

6♣-?

 

and I've asked the right question, partner will value the Q♣ and bid 7♣ with the Q, length and short spades, 7♠ otherwise with the Q♣, 6♠ if he doesn't have it.

 

the only time you'll miss a good grand is when he has 5 small clubs, as he doesn't know that you don't have 10 solid spades and AKx.

[Fluffy]

time to invent a convention? 5nt specific Q ask. :)

lol I showed a way to use this long ago, althou I haven't tried yet. After setting up spades as trumps you bid 4NT KCB, if partner bids 5♣/♦ you ask for trump queen wich he denies of course. After the denial you try 5NT wich is specific queen ask.

[MFA]

2♣ then 3♠ to set spades then 4NT RKC then 6♣.

Asks for 3rd round club control as I play it.

[mich-b]

2♣ then 3♠ to set spades then 4NT RKC then 6♣.

Asks for 3rd round club control as I play it.

exactly.

[ochinko]

6♠ seems like a proper opening. I don't have the science so 2♣ serves no purpose.

 

If I decide to play clever I'll open 1♣ as it guarantees that someone is going to bid. Admittedly it only shows 3 so if don't hear partner giving a ♣ fit, I'll have to settle for 6♠. Partner can still show preference with 7♣. B)

[pooltuna]

Red vs White:

 

Pass Pass Pass ...

 

And you hold:

 

♠AKQT8xxx

♥

♦

♣AKJxx

At these colors you need to prevent the opps finding a save leaving you a guess what to do over 7 of either red suit. Unless you have methods to find the ♣Q opening 2♣ is near pointless.

[neilkaz]

Red vs White:

 

Pass Pass Pass ...

 

And you hold:

 

♠AKQT8xxx

♥

♦

♣AKJxx

At these colors you need to prevent the opps finding a save leaving you a guess what to do over 7 of either red suit. Unless you have methods to find the ♣Q opening 2♣ is near pointless.

Both opps have allready chosen to pass even though W vs R. Do we really think they will find a Red save at the 7 level?

[fred]

Open 4NT (Blackwood).

 

Rebid 7S over any response.

 

There is a reasonable chance the opponents will think you are confused and Double you.

 

It is true that you should never use Blackwood with a void, but with 2 voids it is OK B)

 

Fred Gitelman

Bridge Base Inc.

www.bridgebase.com

[pooltuna]

Open 4NT (Blackwood).

 

Rebid 7S over any response.

 

There is a reasonable chance the opponents will think you are confused and Double you.

 

It is true that you should never use Blackwood with a void, but with 2 voids it is OK B)

 

Fred Gitelman

Bridge Base Inc.

www.bridgebase.com

Okay time to release some calculation methods why do you think 7♠ is the at the right odds? Given that partner is 1/3 to hold the ♣Q. How do you dredge up the remaining %age points to get it up to the 70+% you need?

[Jlall]

Open 4NT (Blackwood).

 

Rebid 7S over any response.

 

There is a reasonable chance the opponents will think you are confused and Double you.

 

It is true that you should never use Blackwood with a void, but with 2 voids it is OK B)

 

Fred Gitelman

Bridge Base Inc.

www.bridgebase.com

Okay time to release some calculation methods why do you think 7♠ is the at the right odds? Given that partner is 1/3 to hold the ♣Q. How do you dredge up the remaining %age points to get it up to the 70+% you need?

If he doesn't have the CQ he could have 5 clubs, or he could have 4 clubs in which case the queen rates to drop, or he could have a doubleton club and 3+ spades to the jack in which case we can ruff out clubs, or he could have 2 clubs and 2 spades to the jack in which case we can make on Qx of clubs or 3-3 clubs, or he could have 3 clubs and the spade jack (and maybe the club ten) in which case we can finesse a club, or he could just have 3 clubs and the Qx drops, or he could have 2 clubs and 2 spades and we get 3-3 clubs or he could have a stiff club and 3+trumps, etc etc

 

Not to mention that a significant portion of the time 7S is down 6S will also be down which means you need less %age than usual.

[fred]

Open 4NT (Blackwood).

 

Rebid 7S over any response.

 

There is a reasonable chance the opponents will think you are confused and Double you.

 

It is true that you should never use Blackwood with a void, but with 2 voids it is OK B)

 

Fred Gitelman

Bridge Base Inc.

www.bridgebase.com

Okay time to release some calculation methods why do you think 7♠ is the at the right odds? Given that partner is 1/3 to hold the ♣Q. How do you dredge up the remaining %age points to get it up to the 70+% you need?

I doubt if you add up things like:

 

- partner has 3, 4, or 5 clubs without the Queen and the Queen drops

- partner has 0, 1 or 2 clubs without the Queen and you are able to establish the suit by ruffing

- partner has a trump entry and enough side suit winners to take care of your club losers

 

that you will get up to 70%, but keep in mind that:

 

1) Sometimes when 7S goes down so does 6S

 

2) The opponents will frequently lead a trump and have to find a whole bunch of discards. Not knowing that you opened 4NT with one void let alone two, this will not be easy for them, especially if your partner is kind enough to hold an Ace.

 

Anyway, my post was not really trying to suggest that 4NT then 7S was the definitively correct way to bid this hand. If there even exists a definitively correct way to bid this hand, I don't know what it is.

 

I was just trying to provide some interesting food for thought.

 

Fred Gitelman

Bridge Base Inc.

www.bridgebase.com