Is this double penalties, t/o or something else?

[DinDIP]

There were very different views expressed about the meaning of the second double when this auction arose at the table:

2H X 3C P

P X

where 2H is weak, the first double is takeout and 3C is natural, non-forcing.

 

Would your answer be different if

1. the opening were at a different level (say a 1H opening followed by a non-forcing 3C)?

2. the response were at a different level as well (say a 1H opening followed by a non-forcing 2C response)?

3. your partnership agreement were that advancer's (i.e. the partner of the doubler's) X of a new suit were takeout?

 

And, extra question for those who do play that the second double in auctions like

1H X 1S X

is takeout:

4. Is advancer's X takeout only when the response is forcing?

 

David

[gwnn]

you still have a takeout shape but you show less in clubs and more in spades and diamonds and obviously about at least an ace above minimum strength. partner is welcome to pass the second double with as little as xxxx of clubs.

[helene_t]

1435 and 17 points is typical. Could have only two clubs, though.

[gwnn]

playing too much Fishbein Helene? :)

[helene_t]

oops 4135

[gwnn]

S, H, D, C :)

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

the 2nd X showes add. strength and is optional, i.e. the

players, who makes the bid, knowes, that he may end up

playing 3Cx, but if p runs, that is also ok as well.

 

A typical hand would be a strong bal. hand, which was too

strong for 2NT, or which is missing a hearts stopper.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[helene_t]

lol 4153 it is

[peachy]

(2H) X = takeout

(2H) X (3C) P (P) X = penalty suggestion with extra values

 

I would have a lots of questions to those who suggest to play (1H) X (1S) X that the last X is takeout. The first question being : Your are kidding, right?

[Cyberyeti]

(2H) X = takeout

(2H) X (3C) P (P) X = penalty suggestion with extra values

 

I would have a lots of questions to those who suggest to play (1H) X (1S) X that the last X is takeout. The first question being : Your are kidding, right?

There's a big difference between 1♥-X-1♠-X and 1♥-X-1♠-P-P-X

[gwnn]

And, extra question for those who do play that the second double in auctions like

1H X 1S X

is takeout:

4. Is advancer's X takeout only when the response is forcing?

Cyberyeti: peachy was replying to the part above.

[Siegmund]

My vote was strongly penalty-oriented.

 

1.no 2.no 3.maybe - I think that'd be a bizarre agreement to have in this auction, a nonforcing bid in a suit I supposedly have and where they are advertising a misfit

 

4. I played this treatment for quite a while (1999-2001ish?) and think it is in principle sound -- at the 1-level only -- but gave it up eventually because "I don't know" was far and away the most common answer I got when I asked "is it forcing?" (both at the club and in regional level open pairs games!)