How do you open this hand?

[dealmegold]

Playing 2/1:

 

♠AKxxxx

♥AKJ

♦Ax

♣QT

 

One spade will inevitably receive a forcing 1NT response, meaning I have to jump in hearts to force game.

 

On the other hand, after 2♣-2♦-2♠-3♦-3♠ it's asking a lot of partner to bid 3NT with a misfit. 2♦ is waiting.

 

I always regret it when I open these 2♣. :rolleyes:

 

addendum: They are vulnerable. IMPS

[Codo]

These hands are no problem in a system where 2 ♣ is no GF, but at least as strong as a strong two in ACOL. I would rate this hand as a strong two. So with an american system I would try 1 ♠

 

If you open these hands 2 Club, you should change your system. 2 ♦ waiting is very common and in my opinion very bad.

The most common hand types after 2 ♣ are hands with a long major or strong balanced. So I prefer a system where 2 is game forcing and 2 ♥ a really bad hand. In this case you can stop in 2 ♠ with this hand opposite a non fitting yarb but play 4 if you have a fit.

[P_Marlowe]

1S.

 

And the bid you should certainly not make after you receive a focing 1nT

response is 3H.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[Little Kid]

1♠ and after 1NT I bid 3NT. Might miss slam sometimes, maybe there is a cleverer way to bid it.

[nigel_k]

2♣ and rebid 2NT over 2♦.

 

This is definitely an awkward hand. I don't really like 1♠ because I am going to raise a 1NT response to 3NT (unless playing something like Gazzilli) so wouldn't gain anything over just starting with 2NT, and could miss a game if everyone passes or wrongside 3NT. I value this as slightly closer to 23 than 22 so will go via 2♣.

 

Opening 2♣ and rebidding 2♠ would be ok as well. There are some hands where you have to accept you could get too high after opening a GF when partner has absolutely nothing. But on this hand I think the chance to stop short of game and describe our general hand type outweighs the cases wehre a 6-2 spade fit will be better than 3NT.

[jdonn]

I don't love 1♠ because I would be forced to rebid 3♣, which despite what codo may think I do because I have to not because I want to. So I would open 2♣ which is a slight overbid the way I play, and rebid 2♠. But wow I really hate rebidding 2NT, talk about masterminding.

[jjbrr]

I'd open 2♣ with most of my partners, and like jdonn says it's a little light. Not the first time I've bid with a little less than I'd like!

[Jlall]

Too light for 2C imo

[Apollo81]

I don't love my rebid options after 1♠. Additionally, I think there is a grey area of strength where hands can be opened either 1x or 2♣, and this hand falls within this area.

 

2♣ for me.

[Siegmund]

" 5 losers = not a 2♣ opener " is about as close to a bidding rule with no exceptions as bidding rules get, IMO.

 

I don't particularly like my rebid options over 1♠-1NT either... or I didn't until I read another thread wherein many 2/1ers played 1M-1N-2N as forcing, a treatment I am liking more and more.

[nigel_k]

But wow I really hate rebidding 2NT, talk about masterminding.

I don't really understand why - can you explain this more?

 

We won't be able to play a 6-2 spade fit after a 2NT rebid but we can still play a 6-3. The gains from rebidding 2NT are when 9 tricks in NT are easier than 10 in spades, or if the 2♠ rebid leads to wrongsiding 3NT, or if partner is broke and there is no game but we can make 2NT. All of these could easily be the case IMO.

[Jlall]

Yeah 2C then 2N is not horrible at all imo. It is a better description than 2C then 2S to me.

[aguahombre]

1♠ and after 1NT I bid 3NT. Might miss slam sometimes, maybe there is a cleverer way to bid it.

this approach is not even close to being a problem. The auction shows six spades in our style and is removed to 4S with every hand which has two spades, unless responder wants to try for slam.

[helene_t]

1♠ and rebid 3nt (this shows six spades, with a balaced max I would rebid 2nt).

 

If p doesn't understand this then I bid the same way anyway.

[Little Kid]

To me 3N also shows 6 decent ♠s and usually a bal/semi-bal hand. However I would also bid it with maxed 17-counts and more, so we may miss slam if p has a decent hand without spade support. I can think of a lot of balanced hands or hands with a nice minor where slam is looking very good without being able to bid it. Missing slam will probably happen less if you also play invitational jumps over 1♠.

[the hog]

I would bid a convntional and gf 2NT. For me, 3NT would show a different hand type.

[dkharty]

I saw this thread and almost did a double take. Last night at the club I picked up ♠AKxxx ♥AKx ♦AKx ♣xx. I was going to give the same three plausible opening bids and ask for people to rank them and explain. It's a little purer than the OP's hand, but still seemed a little light for 2♣ to me with 5 losers...maybe I need to rethink this.

[Jlall]

I saw this thread and almost did a double take. Last night at the club I picked up ♠AKxxx ♥AKx ♦AKx ♣xx. I was going to give the same three plausible opening bids and ask for people to rank them and explain. It's a little purer than the OP's hand, but still seemed a little light for 2♣ to me with 5 losers...maybe I need to rethink this.

Your hand is balanced, so you should not think in terms of losers, but rather in how many HCP your hand is worth. Since I would evaluate your hand as too good to open 2N, I would open 2C and rebid 2N.

[dkharty]

I saw this thread and almost did a double take.  Last night at the club I picked up ♠AKxxx ♥AKx ♦AKx ♣xx.  I was going to give the same three plausible opening bids and ask for people to rank them and explain.  It's a little purer than the OP's hand, but still seemed a little light for 2♣ to me with 5 losers...maybe I need to rethink this.

Your hand is balanced, so you should not think in terms of losers, but rather in how many HCP your hand is worth. Since I would evaluate your hand as too good to open 2N, I would open 2C and rebid 2N.

Yeah, I guess the hand looked so topheavy that I shied away from a NT evaluation of the hand. So, since you characterize this hand as balanced, would you rank the three opening bids 2♣>2NT>1♠, or do you think 2♣>1♠>2NT?

[Jlall]

With 5332 in range for 2N or 2C...2N I will always open the appropriate range of NT. While this is a debatable style if we have a hand in range of a 1N opener, I don't think it's very debatable for the stronger range hands because there is just no way to show a balanced 20 count after opening 1S playing standard methods. If you had some specialized methods, maybe it would become debatable again.

 

So to me it's just a question of 2N or 2C..2N, 1S is a very distant third since I will have to show a different type of hand than the one I have. 2C then 2S likewise would show a different hand.

[straube]

1S

 

I think this hand illustrates why the partnership should consider 1S-1N, 2N as an artificial GF. This rebid denies a 2-suited (5/5 or 6/4) hand (else jump rebid) but doesn't promise a balanced pattern. Most likely the hand is 6331 or 5431 but other patterns (such as this 6322) pattern are possible.

 

1S-1N, 2N allows opener to uncover a 6-2 spade fit. I think this favors a 1S opening over a 2N opening. 2C should promise more imo.

[peachy]

" 5 losers = not a 2♣ opener " is about as close to a bidding rule with no exceptions as bidding rules get, IMO.

 

I don't particularly like my rebid options over 1♠-1NT either... or I didn't until I read another thread wherein many 2/1ers played 1M-1N-2N as forcing, a treatment I am liking more and more.

1S-1NT-2NT is the same as 1H-1S-2NT. It is not forcing (18-19 if playing 15-17 NT opening) but in reality seldom passed. I suppose one could agree it is forcing but I haven't seen that treatment.

[aguahombre]

Hmm, us old simple souls just respond with responses and are willing to find a game with 18 opposite six. It eliminates Wolf signoffs, and makes followups after a 2NT rebid natural and uncomplicated.

[mike777]

I don't love 1♠ because I would be forced to rebid 3♣, which despite what codo may think I do because I have to not because I want to. So I would open 2♣ which is a slight overbid the way I play, and rebid 2♠. But wow I really hate rebidding 2NT, talk about masterminding.

 

1s and then 3c. Expect it be unanimous in the forum.

 

I open 2c more often than most on the forums. I am surprised.

 

 

2c=2d

2nt would be my second choice.

[mike777]

" 5 losers = not a 2♣ opener " is about as close to a bidding rule with no exceptions as bidding rules get, IMO.

 

I don't particularly like my rebid options over 1♠-1NT either... or I didn't until I read another thread wherein many 2/1ers played 1M-1N-2N as forcing, a treatment I am liking more and more.

side note...not sure this is a 5 loser hand in LTC.

 

 

i need to pull out my book and check out section under adjustments.

 

Klinger p.110. Dont use ltc as primary source in deciding an opening bid.

 

Use as an adjunct on borderline hands.

 

1) tend to upgrade AKJ

2) QX is an upgrade in close decisions.

3) Control values:

a=2 k=1

multiply by 3.5

count your hcp

subtract

+2 deduct 1/2 loser

+6 deduct one loser

 

 

Bottom line looks like a 4 loser hand with an upgrade star

 

 

move me to 2c=2d=2nt now.