whereagles Posted July 13, 2004 Report Share Posted July 13, 2004 Not that lonely. I hadn't thought of 2H, but now that you mention it, I think it's a jolly good bid ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted July 13, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2004 "Ok, I admit, I will be a lone voice on the direct 2♥ raise. Just thought I would share this the rest of you (and at least Ron has read this bidding theory). "I thought you would bid it this way - and I like the theory! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flame Posted July 13, 2004 Report Share Posted July 13, 2004 What is this thoery ? it looks really strange to me because i know many who will not raize to 2M even with 3card and 6-7 hcp, they will bid 1nt with it and later support like they had a doubeton, now u have not only a 6 hcp but also a doubelton and you support imidiatly. Its intresting and i would be happy to read more about it. The other things about is to you Ron, when you dont show a 4 card major, its because you dont think this will show the hand, you have to have something that make you think that, for example that good 6 card diamond. Anyway when you dont show a 4 card just treat it as it was a 3 card and act acordingly wather it to support later or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted July 13, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2004 I have already explained why I think this is incorrect. To date NOBODY has shown me how to get to a 4-4 S fit after responder has DENIED 4S with his 1N bid. Repeating what I have already stated - a D game, slam is a LONG way away, the most likely game contracts are 4M and 3N. By bidding 1NT you are eliminating 4M from the equation. If you don't mind burying your major suits fits, thats fine. I, for one, do mind. Fwiw, the way I play, I can show a weak hand with 4S and 6+D even after a 2C rebid by opener with the auction 1H 1S 2C 3D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flame Posted July 13, 2004 Report Share Posted July 13, 2004 Are you sure 4M on 4-4 fit is always better then 3nt ? In general it is, but when you have a good 6 card diamond and a very bad 4 card major im not so sure anymore, we will play 3nt unless partner think we should play 4sp on 4-3. btw im cheking my email every ten seconds ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted July 13, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2004 Are you sure 4M on 4-4 fit is always better then 3nt ? Always? No. Mostly yes.What game would you like to be in?xxxxAKxxxAKQJ xxxxxAKxxxxxx Or - AxxxxQxAxxxxx xxxxxxAKJxxxx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flame Posted July 13, 2004 Report Share Posted July 13, 2004 Its great to give examples, now lets change your examples just alittle bit xxxxAKxxxAKQJ xxxxQAKxxxxxx just added the Q of heart, could have added the Q of diamond just as well, now 3nt is much better then 4sp. actually even adding the J of diamond makes 3nt better imo. AxxxxQxAxxxxx xxxxxxAKJxxxx This hand got no heart stoper this mean my partner after checking for stopers will want to play spades on 4-3 fit, and what a great surprise he will have when i'll show my 4 card suit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted July 14, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2004 AxxxAxxxxxQxx xxxxxxAKJxxxx This hand got no heart stoper this mean my partner after checking for stopers will want to play spades on 4-3 fit, and what a great surprise he will have when i'll show my 4 card suit. You are living in a dream world - your auction will be 1H 1N 2H (Corrected) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flame Posted July 14, 2004 Report Share Posted July 14, 2004 AxxxxQxAxxxxx xxxxxxAKJxxxx This hand got no heart stoper this mean my partner after checking for stopers will want to play spades on 4-3 fit, and what a great surprise he will have when i'll show my 4 card suit. You are living in a dream world - your auction will be 1C 1N 2C 2D all pass! In which dream world will i bid 1nt over 1c with this hand ?anyway i ment the stoper argument in general, when we have no stoper then we are not going for 3nt anyway and will look for a 4-3 major fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted July 14, 2004 Report Share Posted July 14, 2004 What is this thoery ? it looks really strange to me because i know many who will not raize to 2M even with 3card and 6-7 hcp, they will bid 1nt with it and later support like they had a doubeton, now u have not only a 6 hcp but also a doubelton and you support imidiatly. Its intresting and i would be happy to read more about it. Looks strange? welcome to my world... hehehe To find out more about "reverse drury/2-1 GF/variable balanced no fit way I play 1M-2♣, see threads like... First and 2nd hand drury Since I play "drury" (well modified so much, either drury or some other specific raise type, a direct raise can be weak (even weaker than 6-7 pts). see also the threadUnloading 1NT forcing for more discussion of the effect of chaging the 2♣ bid. It is more than just the direct raise that is altered. It is easy, relatively fun, and follows along the use of 2♣ as artificial (most use it as game force relay), while keeping simple reverse drury like responses. If Drury after 1st seat openings was good enough for Barry Crane, a similar system (only slightly more complicated) is good enough for me... :-) After you read it, if you have any question, I would be happy to discuss them with you. ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricK Posted July 14, 2004 Report Share Posted July 14, 2004 I have already explained why I think this is incorrect. To date NOBODY has shown me how to get to a 4-4 S fit after responder has DENIED 4S with his 1N bid. Repeating what I have already stated - a D game, slam is a LONG way away, the most likely game contracts are 4M and 3N. By bidding 1NT you are eliminating 4M from the equation. If you don't mind burying your major suits fits, thats fine. I, for one, do mind. Fwiw, the way I play, I can show a weak hand with 4S and 6+D even after a 2C rebid by opener with the auction 1H 1S 2C 3D. The ability to show this hand obviously makes it safer to show the 4 cd major. But if you don't have this ability, then you are weighing up the possibility of missing a Spade game on a 4-4 fit, with the possibility of reaching the wrong part score. I know games are worth more than part scores, but if the chance of game is very low, it may not be right, on average, to look for that game at all (and quoting hands where it is right or wrong does not really help answer the question of what is right on average). On a related note, aren't you one of those people who advocates bypassing a 4 card major as opener with a balanced hand on an auction like 1♣ 1♥ 1♠/1NT? If so, isn't that slightly inconsistent? Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted July 14, 2004 Report Share Posted July 14, 2004 So you are guys discusing about if 4M can be ever worse than 3NT when comeone has an outside 6 card suit? Where is the problem? you´ve got a 6 card suit, partner has singleton, you ca stablish it better on 4M. You have a 4-6, partner has doubleton, you can maybe stablish it better ruffing third round. Your 6 card suit has all top honniors and doesn´t need to be stablished?, oh well then you´ve got trumps to stop the remaining suits. So the only question comes when you lose 4 tricks in the trtump suit? lol, even then the contract is playable, and you are able to avoid it with proper bidding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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