Drury over interference

[jillybean]

How do you handle interference when playing Dury?

 

I'd like to play drury on over X and an intervening bid, where possible so 1♥ (1♠) 2♣ and 1♥ (X) 2♣ is drury.

If you play it like this what is 1♥ (2♦) X, 1♥(bid) X and is 1♥ (bid,X) 2N natural ?

 

tyia

[gwnn]

there's no drury over these sequences. Some people use 1M-x-2♣ as drury (Marty Bergen used to advocate it) but most now use transfers:

 

1♥-x-1♠=spades

1♥-x-1NT=clubs (normally a 6 card suit with at least 8 points)

1♥-x-2♣=diamonds (same)

1♥-x-2♦=semi-invitational fit (a good 8 points)

 

and the same over 1♠-x but then 2♦ is of course hearts and 2♥ is the good raise.

[TylerE]

Drury over X: Decent to good (I usually play it this way)

Drury over Bids: Terrible. Seriously. DO NOT PLAY THIS

[aguahombre]

there's no drury over these sequences. Some people use 1M-x-2♣ as drury (Marty Bergen used to advocate it) but most now use transfers:

 

1♥-x-1♠=spades

1♥-x-1NT=clubs (normally a 6 card suit with at least 8 points)

1♥-x-2♣=diamonds (same)

1♥-x-2♦=semi-invitational fit (a good 8 points)

 

and the same over 1♠-x but then 2♦ is of course hearts and 2♥ is the good raise.

Xfers/1MX are a good thing, IMO. But since the transfer allows responder who made the transfer to bid again if he chooses, I see no great reason to require that it show 8 points (except the transfer which shows a constructive raise in opener's major).

 

In the old days, we could show a long suit, say X XXX XX QJXXXXX After the auction 1S (X) --by simply bidding 2C, which did not ask partner to further participate in the auction without a big fit. Now that transfers are available, we can use them with this hand or one which has more stuff.

[aguahombre]

by the way, great subject for Drury players to get straight; and I hope more of them respond with their opinions. Not being a Drury person (yeh, yeh..I know how wonderful it is), I have no idea when it should apply in competition, but would like to know.

[gwnn]

http://forums.bridgebase.com/index.php?sho...ndpost&p=230641 was a nice post by awm, albeit not for this exact transfer.

 

my 8+ was an overreaction though.

[jillybean]

there's no drury over these sequences. Some people use 1M-x-2♣ as drury (Marty Bergen used to advocate it) but most now use transfers:

 

1♥-x-1♠=spades

1♥-x-1NT=clubs (normally a 6 card suit with at least 8 points)

1♥-x-2♣=diamonds (same)

1♥-x-2♦=semi-invitational fit (a good 8 points)

 

and the same over 1♠-x but then 2♦ is of course hearts and 2♥ is the good raise.

Is x here a double or any interference?, and why is drury over a bid terrible?

 

Transfers after interference are no doubt best but I dont know if I want to add that complexity right now.

[aguahombre]

X=double, for purpose of describing the transfer thing.

 

If you decide later to look at xfers over major doubled, it is in a Cappeletti booklet called "cappeletti over doubles" or close to that.

[mikeh]

Another version of transfers over double, and the one I prefer is:

 

redouble = transfer to next higher denomination

 

1♠  [x]  xx = 1N

1♥  [x]  xx = spades

1♥  [x]  1♠ = notrump

 

and so on, to a transfer into the major is a good raise, a direct 2 level raise is a garbage raise

 

You have to pass with a balanced 10+ unless you are willing to show a notrump hand (note that you can show this and bid again to show extras)..so if you want to double, you pass and then double next time. You lose a few low-level penalty doubles, but still collect some, and in the interim, you have more descriptive bids available.

[peachy]

It is ok to play Drury on in competition. It is definitely worth it IMO. Then, with that agreed, over a bid of 2C or 2D that takes away the rury bid, you can agree that X is either regular neg.dbl or a balanced 3-card raise.

[Finch]

I do usually play Drury, but not in competition.

The position after an overcall is different from the one after a double.

 

After 1M (x) I admit I also play transfers. However, if you think that is too complex, you can play what I did until quite recently which is to keep everything natural but play 1NT as a good 3-card raise (about 8-10). There's actually little point in a natural 1NT after 1H x or 1S x - if you are minimum, you don't want to be in the auction, and if you have extras you may as well redouble. The normal approach to transfers after a double also loses the natural 1NT bid.

 

The extension to that is to play 1M (x) P (2minor) P (P) x as showing a natural 1NT bid - i.e. about 7-9 HCP balanced usually with a doubleton in partner's major. Opener can pass or bid as he chooses.

 

Life is harder after an overcall. I choose to give up on showing a good raise at the 2-level and either have to downgrade to a raise to 2 or force to the 3-level (which is obviously not really a problem with 4-card support). One treatment I particularly dislike is to play double as either a normal takeout double or a 3-card raise, because it makes life extremely difficult for opener, particularly after a 1H opening. Take the auction:

 

P P 1H 2C

x P ?

 

What is opener supposed to bid on a 4=5=2=2 minimum? If responder has spades they have a spade fit. But if responder has the balanced 3-card raise, they are going to end up at the 3-level anyway. And it's worse if RHO raises clubs

 

P P 1H 2C

x 3C ?

 

Again, give opener a 4=5=3=1 14-15 count. He wants to bid 3S opposite a spade suit, but is going to be in a silly contract opposite an 8-count with 3 hearts. And if you double on this shape, what is responder to bid on a 4243 - aren't you still in danger of missing the spade fit?

[jmcw]

Versus 1♥ DBL

 

RDBL = P9+, could have 3 card support.

1♠/♥ = 5+♠ no fit for ♥(1 round force)

1NT = Transfer to 2♣.

2♣ = Transfer to 2♦

2♦ = Good ♥ raise

2♥ = Weak ♥ raise .

2♠ = Fit raise.

2NT = Strong limit raise..

3♣ = Fit raise

3♦ = Fit raise

3♥ = Pre-emptive.

Higher = Extreme fit raise usually 5/5

 

Versus 1♠ DBL

RDBL = P9+, could have 3 card support.

1NT = Transfer to 2♣.

2♣ = Transfer to 2♦

2♦ = Transfer to 2♥

2♥ = Good ♠ raise.

2♠ = Weak ♠ raise.

2NT = Strong limit raise..

3♣ = Fit raise

3♦ = Fit raise

3♥ = Fit raise.

3♠ =Pre-emptive.

Higher = Extreme fit raise usually 5/5

 

Applies 1st and 2nd. 2♣ is DRURY type in 3rd and 4th.

 

Drury also applies when 1♥ is overcalled 1♠

[fromageGB]

Another version of transfers over double, and the one I prefer is:

 

redouble = transfer to next higher denomination

 

1♠  [x]  xx = 1N

1♥  [x]  xx = spades

1♥  [x]  1♠ = notrump

 

and so on, to a transfer into the major is a good raise, a direct 2 level raise is a garbage raise

 

You have to pass with a balanced 10+ unless you are willing to show a notrump hand (note that you can show this and bid again to show extras)..so if you want to double, you pass and then double next time. You lose a few low-level penalty doubles, but still collect some, and in the interim, you have more descriptive bids available.

Absolutely. My preference too.

Incidentally, transfer to the NT not only makes the opener declarer (right-siding) but puts overcaller on lead, leading away from his stuff. I also (keep thing simple) play the same transfers after a 2 level overcall of partner's major.

[MickyB]

Something I quite like by a passed hand, and isn't demonstrably worse than transfers by an unpassed hand -

 

1M (X) 2M-1 = constructive raise

1M (X) 1NT = 5+cards in the suit below ours

 

Nice to be able to get your five-card heart suits into the auction without losing minor-suit fits.

 

Drury over Bids: Terrible. Seriously. DO NOT PLAY THIS

 

If you are playing a weak 2♦, then playing 2♦ by a passed hand as a good raise in competition is hardly ridiculous - sure, there will be times you wish you weren't, but they won't be frequent. Guess it depends on your style of preempts.

[jillybean]

Thanks, there were some very good replies here. I still don't know what we are going to do but we now have more information and options to consider. :)

[gwnn]

and why is drury over a bid terrible?

because when everybody is starting to bid suits it's imperative for you to be able to get your suits in. Particularly clubs which you could easily have, say,

 

xx

Kx

xxx

AJxxxx

 

you may open 3♣ with this but many people (rightfully) don't, but after 1♥-(1♠) you just have to bid clubs it's your last chance to let partner know what you have. if you have a fit you can bid 2♥ or 2♠ (or higher). if you have clubs you have to bid 2♣ :). LHO will bid spades a lot of the times and that means they have a fit and we really really want to find a fit of ourselves.

 

of course you can say that why is 2♣ good outside competition if it's so important to show clubs? in a way it's still bad but opps will much rarely bid now. sometimes you will miss as much as 5 clubs (xxx AQxxx Ax Kxx) because you can't bid clubs here but you will usually find your games and acceptable partscores even without 2♣ natural. it's more important when opps are silent to be able to stop in 2♥ when partner thought it would be a good idea to open with AQJxx and out in 3rd seat.

[jillybean]

I do usually play Drury, but not in competition.  

The position after an overcall is different from the one after a double.

 

After 1M (x) I admit I also play transfers.  However, if you think that is too complex, you can play what I did until quite recently which is to keep everything natural but play 1NT as a good 3-card raise (about 8-10).  There's actually little point in a natural 1NT after 1H x or 1S x - if you are minimum, you don't want to be in the auction, and if you have extras you may as well redouble.  The normal approach to transfers after a double also loses the natural 1NT bid.

 

The extension to that is to play 1M (x) P (2minor) P (P) x as showing a natural 1NT bid - i.e. about 7-9 HCP balanced usually with a doubleton in partner's major. Opener can pass or bid as he chooses.

 

Life is harder after an overcall. I choose to give up on showing a good raise at the 2-level and either have to downgrade to a raise to 2 or force to the 3-level (which is obviously not really a problem with 4-card support).  One treatment I particularly dislike is to play double as either a normal takeout double or a 3-card raise, because it makes life extremely difficult for opener, particularly after a 1H opening.  Take the auction:

 

P P 1H 2C

x P  ?

 

What is opener supposed to bid on a 4=5=2=2 minimum?  If responder has spades they have a spade fit. But if responder has the balanced 3-card raise, they are going to end up at the 3-level anyway.  And it's worse if RHO raises clubs

 

P P 1H 2C

x 3C ?

 

Again, give opener a 4=5=3=1 14-15 count. He wants to bid 3S opposite a spade suit, but is going to be in a silly contract opposite an 8-count with 3 hearts. And if you double on this shape, what is responder to bid on a 4243 - aren't you still in danger of missing the spade fit?

 

Thanks Frances, how do you play 2N after interference and how light can your favorable vulnerability, 3rd seat openings be?

P (P) 1M (bid)

2N ?

[peachy]

and why is drury over a bid terrible?

because when everybody is starting to bid suits it's imperative for you to be able to get your suits in. Particularly clubs which you could easily have, say,

 

xx

Kx

xxx

AJxxxx

 

you may open 3♣ with this but many people (rightfully) don't, but after 1♥-(1♠) you just have to bid clubs it's your last chance to let partner know what you have. if you have a fit you can bid 2♥ or 2♠ (or higher). if you have clubs you have to bid 2♣ :). LHO will bid spades a lot of the times and that means they have a fit and we really really want to find a fit of ourselves.

 

of course you can say that why is 2♣ good outside competition if it's so important to show clubs? in a way it's still bad but opps will much rarely bid now. sometimes you will miss as much as 5 clubs (xxx AQxxx Ax Kxx) because you can't bid clubs here but you will usually find your games and acceptable partscores even without 2♣ natural. it's more important when opps are silent to be able to stop in 2♥ when partner thought it would be a good idea to open with AQJxx and out in 3rd seat.

I've played Drury on in competition for more than ten years and not encountered a problem with it or lost partscore battles because of it.

[aguahombre]

and why is drury over a bid terrible?

because when everybody is starting to bid suits it's imperative for you to be able to get your suits in. Particularly clubs which you could easily have, say,

 

xx

Kx

xxx

AJxxxx

 

you may open 3♣ with this but many people (rightfully) don't, but after 1♥-(1♠) you just have to bid clubs it's your last chance to let partner know what you have. if you have a fit you can bid 2♥ or 2♠ (or higher). if you have clubs you have to bid 2♣ :). LHO will bid spades a lot of the times and that means they have a fit and we really really want to find a fit of ourselves.

 

of course you can say that why is 2♣ good outside competition if it's so important to show clubs? in a way it's still bad but opps will much rarely bid now. sometimes you will miss as much as 5 clubs (xxx AQxxx Ax Kxx) because you can't bid clubs here but you will usually find your games and acceptable partscores even without 2♣ natural. it's more important when opps are silent to be able to stop in 2♥ when partner thought it would be a good idea to open with AQJxx and out in 3rd seat.

I've played Drury on in competition for more than ten years and not encountered a problem with it or lost partscore battles because of it.

hmm. This is why I enjoy reading explanations, well thought out --whether I end up agreeing with them or not -- in addition to just the "general experience" conclusions of respected posters. Another string talked about this very subject.

[gwnn]

I'm happy for you then peachy. I wish I had even one convention that I could say that about. (I'm honestly happy, not sarcastic)

[rogerclee]

Maybe peachy is right, but I would be (extremely) surprised if I never had a single loss from playing Drury on in competition over the next couple of years. That said, in principle I have no problem with the agreement, though I do not (and never have) personally played it, so my opinion is not coming from experience.

[peachy]

Maybe peachy is right, but I would be (extremely) surprised if I never had a single loss from playing Drury on in competition over the next couple of years. That said, in principle I have no problem with the agreement, though I do not (and never have) personally played it, so my opinion is not coming from experience.

I'm not looking to be right, was only sharing my experience. If others have consistent success with Drury off in competition, then it would seem to indicate both methods work.

[Finch]

Thanks Frances, how do you play 2N after interference and how light can your favorable vulnerability, 3rd seat openings be?

P (P) 1M (bid)

2N ?

P P 1M (x) 2NT is a good 4-card raise

 

In one partnership I play P P 1M (bid) 2NT as a good 4-card raise

In the other partnership I play 2NT as natural (it's a transfer by a non-passed hand) but do have another more complex method of showing a good 4-card raise, depending on the auction.

 

We actually tend not to open systemically on complete rubbish in 3rd seat, we are more likely to pre-empt. We prefer to bid on the assumption that opener has something vaguely resembling an opening bid i.e. 1M is likely to be either 10+ points with a 5-card suit, or 11+ with a good 4-card suit. If we choose to open on something wildly different that's not systemic (although obviously it happens sometimes). I'm never worried about what do with 4-card support.

 

(In a match yesterday my partner opened 1S in 3rd seat at game all on AKQJ Jxx Jxx xxx and the auction continued 1S x 2S (weak raise) P P x all pass for -500 opposite xxx xxx Kxx A109x so it's still possible to get burnt)

[jillybean]

The more I look at the transfers over X, the more I like it.

I just need to check, transfers/X are only used by a passed hand, not by an unpassed hand, correct?

[Jlall]

The more I look at the transfers over X, the more I like it.

I just need to check, transfers/X are only used by a passed hand, not by an unpassed hand, correct?

You can use them by UPH for the same reasons (and more reasons actually).