Jlall Posted January 8, 2010 Report Share Posted January 8, 2010 The argument for 2C is pretty obviously that we don't want to defend 1S X without a trump on a marginal hand. The argument for X is obviously that we do want to defend 1S X... I don't really know what kind of argument you're looking for. Most bridge decisions have obvious plusses and minusses, and stating them may make people on the forums happy but eventually it just comes down to which you think is right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted January 8, 2010 Report Share Posted January 8, 2010 Wow I was surprised so many doubled! I'd definitely bid 2♣ because I don't want to defend 1♠X... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jlall Posted January 8, 2010 Report Share Posted January 8, 2010 I just feel like not having a trump to play through at some point costs the defense so much, and at the 1 level it won't be hard for them to scramble tricks if we are not able to lead trumps. Also there is a pretty decent chance of pushing them to 2S even if partner is trap passing 1S by bidding. There are many hands I would pass over a X but bid 2S over 2C if I was LHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyhung Posted January 8, 2010 Report Share Posted January 8, 2010 I'm a 2♣ bidder too. I consider the opening marginal with no spades (if they have the spades, we have to go one level higher; if partner has the spades, my hand doesn't fit), and below-average defense (only 1.5 quick tricks). Since we are not vulnerable and we have a little extra high-card strength, I will grudgingly accept the open but then I would not dare reopen with double. My hand has sub-par defense, it has no trump (so dummy will not be so bad for declarer and I can't lead trump for partner), they are at the 1-level, and they are not vulnerable. Partner pretty much needs to have 6+ defensive tricks in hand for us to do well vs. 1S-X. Instead of trying to take 7 tricks with a void in their trump suit, how about trying to take 8 tricks with the better fit of one of my 5-card minors as trump? The clubs are not good, but all I need is one extra trick on offense, and bidding 2♣ will identify our longest minor suit fit. Double does have some upside : it gives us the best chance of finding hearts if that's right and still gives us the opportunity to get to clubs or diamonds as well. I just hate the prospect of 1S-X for the reasons mentioned above. If you could guarantee to me that partner would not pass 1S-X, then double is clear. Unfortunately that's not realistic, so I take the 2♣ road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted January 8, 2010 Report Share Posted January 8, 2010 A challenge: For those who double in this sequence almost all the time, please describe a hand where you would bid 2♣. (No one responding has yet.) a hand with high ODR, wtp? xxxKQJxxKQJxx by the way, I'm not the sort of person who doubles almost always (so I guess I should not have answered this lol) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billw55 Posted January 8, 2010 Report Share Posted January 8, 2010 But defending 1♠x is not the only possible outcome from double. Maybe partner has five hearts. Maybe he has four hearts and playing there doesn't suck with KJx opposite. Maybe he'll go to his longer minor and we're no worse off than if I bid 2♣. True, sometimes partner will decide to leave it in and they make. Is there a perfect bid where nothing can go wrong? As for hands that bid 2♣, that isn't so hard. Even on this hand, just keep the shape and move the heart honors to clubs. voila Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jlall Posted January 8, 2010 Report Share Posted January 8, 2010 lol, if partner has 4 or 5 hearts and not a trap pass, how many points does he have? Do you think it is our hand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billw55 Posted January 8, 2010 Report Share Posted January 8, 2010 lol, if partner has 4 or 5 hearts and not a trap pass, how many points does he have? Do you think it is our hand? No, but do you never try to push ops one higher? edit: actually hmm, the more I think about this the more I see your point. On the auction the trap pass is by far the most likely thing partner can have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted January 8, 2010 Report Share Posted January 8, 2010 One style to play is to never, never trap pass at unfav.......but we are at nv here. Another is to avoid reopening with an x with a void at low levels.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lifemonster Posted January 10, 2010 Report Share Posted January 10, 2010 But defending 1♠x is not the only possible outcome from double. Maybe partner has five hearts. Maybe he has four hearts and playing there doesn't suck with KJx opposite. Maybe he'll go to his longer minor and we're no worse off than if I bid 2♣. If partner has 5 hearts and some value he would have made a negative dbl already. If partner has 5 hearts and doesn't even have strength to make a 1st time negative dbl, with your marginal opener, you are not gonna buy the hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pooltuna Posted January 10, 2010 Report Share Posted January 10, 2010 [snip] True, sometimes partner will decide to leave it in and they make. Is there a perfect bid where nothing can go wrong? [snip]Of course there are but they are so rare you've never seen one <_< I will give you a 4333 version ♠AKQ♥AKQ♦AKQ♣AKQJ :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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